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October 25, 2014, 02:04:46 PM
TIGSource ForumsCommunityCompetitionsOld CompetitionsCockpit Competitionokkuplektor [finished]
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Author Topic: okkuplektor [finished]  (Read 33469 times)
0rel
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« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2009, 04:53:53 PM »

hey peoples! - if somebody wants to make a new level with the existing engine,
here, all the selected levels, included in the beta.

would be really exciting to see new ideas coming out of this... i didn't felt like doing new stuff right now for it (so, i never will (probably)), just because i'm kind of fed up with it. but if you want to play around with it, that would be certainly a cool thing. okkuplekto-kollektor. heh., kind of a small collection of various small levels, all created by TIGers. just an idea i had today, don't know if it makes any sense...

level export should be straight forward, with the (pasted/hacked together) script included in the blend files. (alt-p to run the script). just copy the the exported files into the data directory, modify the game.xml file, and then - when things went right - game_dev.exe should load up the new level. pressing F5 reinits the game, and reloads all. F1 let's you see the wires... that's pretty much it.

maybe something's coming out, maybe not. i don't really mind. - it would be just for fun.  Blink
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Ivan
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alright, let's see what we can see

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« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2009, 09:37:42 PM »

Really nice game, 0rel!

I really like that you limited the resolution. It also, like Fifth's wagon game, reminds me of Magic Carpet in its aesthetics and also of another Bullfrog game, Hi-Octane. The music really fits the game too.

I really like the feel of the controls, smooth and responsive and overall a great experience.

One small pet peeve is maybe you can add a progress bar to the sound generation in the beginning. I ended up quitting it a few times because I couldn't wait and had something to do. It would have been nice to know when it was going to finish.
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« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2009, 06:15:53 AM »

I really want to try this, but I just get an empty console window and an "unknown software exception (0xc000001d) at 0x00462db8" when I run play.bat Sad This is Win2k with a Radeon 9500.
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0rel
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« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2009, 06:55:39 AM »

hi
muku!

"unknown software exception"?
not good. - but good you're posted about it!
i'm almost sure it's something with OpenAL part, because all worked fine with the other game last time on your win2k, when i remember right. so, i've complied a version with disabled audio. - it would be very helpful if you could say if things run that way. - if so, OpenAL seems to be very unreliable then, and will be just dropped... - oh, and does the error message just pop up right after starting play.bat, or did the loading screen already show up? maybe is it also the OpenAL redist installer, then simply running game.exe could help, but i really don't want to urge you Smiley.


thanks toastie (Ivan, huh?) for the feedback!

concerning inspiring games, i also noticed that 'Rouge Squadron', for the n64, which i enjoyed quite a bit, probably had its influences. also 'Star Fox 64', i think. - man, i'm still stuck in these old days, when it comes to having ideas about games... probably i should play more games of today to keep a bit up to date :D. - still loving the all the retro futures!

by the way: i really like the aesthetics of your game too, and was following it with interest. but i wasn't able to get it running on my machine yet. one early build worked, but only quite slowly... the newest one crashes right after i allow allow the firewall request after pressing start in the map sub menu...

and yes, the problem with the long precalc time in my game is annoying me too, probably i won't do it again that way, because packing up the music up as compressed oggs shouldn't be much of problem for most people downloading it.. it's  just more accepted to wait a few seconds longer downloading while doing something else, than waiting in front of brown full screen blocking everything... a progressbar could help too, i was just a bit too lazy there Smiley. ahh. or maybe a minimized precalc window!? ha. never thought about that before... - when i have some time i'll change that maybe...

thanks for the hint though, critics and problems are really welcomed. just because, i really wanna learn how to improve things, when ever possible.

Jph,
hey, that's fun too hear! i can't serve you with such a t-shirt, but probably with the tool itself, when the time's right.
we seem to have some similar tastes or something, that's fine to know Smiley.
@midi seq: i will do something there, when i find the energy. i want to dig a bit deeper into the sound world, i've decided, so it makes sense to have the right tools. - the program must have a simple, and easy to handle piano roll interface, i don't understand trackers at all, but nested patterns to arrange would still be great to have... short event snippets, with some per pattern parameters... the interface will be based OpenGL, when possible. output via standard WinAPI, under windows, but there's probably a problem, because tight timing - wich is really important - is difficult to achieve, i fear. crucial will also be the midi import/export part. 'OpenSound Control' would be also option, but never worked with it yet, and i don't know how complicated it is in practice... probably, i'll stick with standard midi. - i'll say you when there's something ready to test out (probably not very soon, though).

Space_man,
haha! - you played my game in the right way!, it seems. there's always a way through!
i don't know what the main problem in that level with the keys was? finding the second one, or using it? hmm...

(by the way, now things should be easier, with the blender level files...)


Xion,
Melly,
Mikademus,
Fuzz,

thank you all for the kind words!

there's a speed run video, that shows in the last part how to "slove" that level with the spikeballs...

@audio problems:
did you already try to run the debug build?
(you can just copy the whole data folder over from the normal build, to avoid the long precalc time...)
would be interesting for me to know more about that damn audio problem, i really want to fix it, if i can. are the sounds just totally glitched up, much too quiet but present, or completely missing? that they fade out according to the disctance would be okay, it's just a bit unrealistically tuned (they fade out too fast)...  - or do you not even hear the sounds of your own weapons?

Gainsworthy,
first, i didn't expect to see your lovely orange walross again, in this dark okkuplektor world... Wink - all the more i was happy to see you here! thanks a lot for your always inspired words!

!CE-9,
yeh, starting all over again after dying was really too cruel. good you mentioned it, you'll get inifnite lives now. :D

Synnah,
thanks! again.
these .txt files look creepy cryptic, eh, i know, the sound tool is also a cryptic horse, but still human... hardcore stuff Durr...?.
btw, its abstractness is really what i think, after replaying it a couple of times, would be worth exploring a bit more. .probably, i will do more in that direction... also thanks for pointing out that indiegames.com was reporting about my game. too cool!
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 08:11:28 AM by 0rel » Logged
trabitboy
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« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2009, 11:23:12 AM »

well I'm sooooooo impressed and satisfied by this game

just realized the world badly needed a trippy abstract rez descent like  Beer! Gentleman
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trabitboy
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« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2009, 04:42:41 AM »

hi, just wanted to drop a word to say
the game works only one 1 computer out of 3 I tried it on ,
even the no sound version  Shrug
"system cannot execute the specified program"

so:
worked on my 2 year old laptop with windows mediacenter
doesn't work on my 1 year old xp desktop from work
doens't work on my 4 year old xp laptop ( quite decent )

it would be cool that such a great piece of work could be sampled by everyone  Gentleman

If I can help for more testing, I'm ready.
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0rel
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« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2009, 05:52:06 PM »

hi trabitboy!
nice too hear you like the game.
it's still not really "great", i think,
but i would be really glad if i would get the tech
working properly with this project,
so, help's really welcome,
to pushing this to a final version,
eventually.

but maybe we're already a step further,
cause the that "system cannot execute the specified program" message
led me to an (already suspected) leak: the manifest.
it was simply missing, i guess...
but since i have really no idea about what manifests are for,
and how to handle them correctly,
i wasn't sure how to fix it properly, yet...

but here's a new zip, now with all the msvc9 redist
files packed up (and some minor other changes),
maybe it's that simple:
okkuplektor_beta2_msvc0.zip

what i also tried tonight, was a complete workaround, which will
probably solve things more easily. i've compiled game again with the MinGW instead,
and probably got an exe out, which isn't dependent on any special DLLs, nor on that manifest thing anymore either.
that would be almost ideal, but i can't say if that will really do it...
(the only problem that would still bugging me with MinGW, is that the programs normally run slower than the Microsoft compiler... so it would be great if both version would run in the end...):
okkuplektor_beta2_mingw0.zip
(to avoid loading times, you can copy the files in game/data/audio over from another version, nothing changed there...)

thanks again for the feedbacks! Gentleman
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trabitboy
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« Reply #47 on: April 16, 2009, 12:46:02 AM »

hi!
the mingw version runs fine on the old laptop ,
but you should distribute openal32.dll with your game maybe
( I can't install it on my work pc, prevents it from running ).

interesting for the mingw workaround, I use codeblocks/mingw
and I didn't seem to run into all of this when I send a test build
to various friends.
a lot of entries seem to suffer from the vc++ "pickiness" ?

for gameplay:
u definitely nailed the descent feel, I was instantly at home and compelled to play  Beer!

EDIT:
sticking the openal32.dll in the same folder as your game.exe
made it run beautifully on my work desktop,
bringing it really close to a release you can just unzip and play  Wink

« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 12:53:53 AM by trabitboy » Logged

Will Vale
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« Reply #48 on: April 16, 2009, 01:06:02 AM »

The initial level reminds me of Zarch for some reason. I got confused and thought the X meant I wasn't supposed to destroy the castle, so I waited around for something to protect it from... Luckily I figured it out in the end.

The whole thing is deeply stylish, I'm glad I got to play it. I think it does suffer a bit from the ease with which you can avoid the baddies on some levels - it feels like you should be shooting but it's more efficient just to dodge them and head for the exit.

Have you tried rendering at 2x the resolution and downsampling? I have a soft spot for very low res polygonal visuals with antialiasing, and I think it'd look good on this game Smiley


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0rel
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« Reply #49 on: April 16, 2009, 10:53:19 AM »

okay. i've finally managed to compile all in "/MT mode" with MSVC, so that that new build should run independently of any special DLLs too, now (besides OpenAL...).

thanks for a lot for the detailed testing, trabitboy. Coffee
@OpenAL:
i've put the naked OpenAL DLLs into the zip too now. the SDK docs told that redist installer returns some handy installation status values, so that that special case, when the OS dir is write protected, can be handeled separately. so, play.bat will copy the DLLs just into the game folder in that case, and things should run fine then. cool you tested it on your work machine too. Smiley i wasn't sure if just sticking the DLL right into the game folder will do it... now, i do... the batch will still prefer the normal install method, if possible, cause i think it's trustier, and should detect all the present hardware that way. hm, still, i can't be that fond of that OpenAL way of handling audio, after all. too many weak points. next freeware thing i do will be probably FMOD powered, i've decided...

and yes,
VC++ was really annoying in this compo. so many entries suffered form esoteric DLL-hell and other similar problems, i thought too... MinGW is nice in that respect; as far as i know, it links the c runtime lib by default statically. so, the exe's more how i like them: independent. but probably the same thing can be also achieved with the ms compiler it seems...

hope it works now a bit better.
okkuplektor_beta3_msvc0.zip

but please don't hesitate to say if it breaks again, i hunt bugs with joy. Wink
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0rel
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« Reply #50 on: April 16, 2009, 02:16:48 PM »

Quote from: Will Vale
The initial level reminds me of Zarch for some reason. I got confused and thought the X meant I wasn't supposed to destroy the castle, so I waited around for something to protect it from... Luckily I figured it out in the end.
ye, when i would have had more time in the compo, i'd have made the first level more like a tutorial, i think...

Quote
I think it does suffer a bit from the ease with which you can avoid the baddies on some levels - it feels like you should be shooting but it's more efficient just to dodge them and head for the exit.
yes, that's the main problem in the game, for me too... the "mechanics" with the key+door could have prevented the player from skipping fights that easily, i thought afterwards (similar like in the more challenging boss fight), or other kinds of collectibles from the enemies. but i had no time to make that into the game during the compo. in the current state, defeating enemies has mostly no function, so it's just for "easy" fun. - maybe that design fault could be developed into something good, though... with "enemies" that just behave in certain way, they could be destroyed, but there would be no need to do that... all would be more optional, more open. you could get optional awards, like "killed all in minial time"-record, or an easy trackable "speed" record, like in many games. but maybe also more trick oriented things, with special weapons/tools -> score could work. more, playing for "beautiful moves", or "relaxing hovering". kind of a "space dance"... that's hard to track with score though (still no idea there...). and these things really went to far for the compo, but maybe i do some tests with that in new levels...

Quote
Have you tried rendering at 2x the resolution and downsampling? I have a soft spot for very low res polygonal visuals with antialiasing, and I think it'd look good on this game
i've tested it in the beginning with enabled FSAA. somehow i liked it, but overall it didn't really fit.
...while haveing the msvc project already open again, here an exe with enabled FSAA, if you want to check out how it would have looked like. (-> the "logical" resolution is 256x128 pixels, which gets scaled up in discrete steps, in fullscreen mode. now, the FSAA will be applied on the physical screen pixels, so that it surly looks different than downsampling it... but it gives that impression of "lowres smoothness"... - i still like the crisp, hyper alised pixel look more, it's probably more efficient on older machines too, and motion makes things look smoother too somehow... (and: i can't compete with nextgen look at all Wink))
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Will Vale
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« Reply #51 on: April 16, 2009, 05:06:10 PM »

here an exe with enabled FSAA

That's exactly what I was thinking of, thanks so much! I really like that version but I can see why you'd want to stick to crispness for the official release.

Regarding the tutorial, I think drawing the frame around targets in red would probably have been all the clue I needed on level 1. Your ideas about bonuses, scoring and style sound like they would work really well and add lots of reasons to go back and replay levels after the initial rush of just getting to the end.

You can also make a really good game out of finding ways to effectively cheat to get to the end quickly - see the driving/puzzle Gripshift for an example of this taken to the extreme.

Will
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trabitboy
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« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2009, 12:26:24 AM »

okay. i've finally managed to compile all in "/MT mode" with MSVC, so that that new build should run independently of any special DLLs too, now (besides OpenAL...).
 to say if it breaks again, i hunt bugs with joy. Wink


Hi,
new build starts on work desktop,
but fails on older xp laptop  Beg

other weird open al behaviour I didn't catch last time:
it starts on my work pc when I fetch the openal dll directly in the directory,
BUT it doesn't output any sound  Epileptic
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0rel
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« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2009, 03:57:01 AM »

weird... - the same message ("system cannot execute the specified program") again, on your older xp laptop?

strange, cause there shouldn't be any different dependencies than in the MinGW build, which worked properly last time?

hmmm, really hard for me to say what it could be...

(any hints on some special MSVC_2008 quirks would be helpful, my limited knowledge about all the special switches and options really ends here...)

maybe the official MSVC 2008 redist helps?

but if that would work, i'll still keep using MinGW for released EXEs next, cause i really don't want to force anybody to install system software, just to play some small game...


and, it's also good to know that the sound finally still doesn't work with naked DLLs!
too bad, that you can't play it on the workplace Wink
(but it's really something to consider, many people want to play small games from a restricted account...)

OpenAL simply failed!
at least for small downloadable games.
(i can't change things in this project, though...)

edit:
new zips.
okkuplektor_beta3_mingw0.zip
okkuplektor_beta3_msvc2.zip
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 04:24:46 AM by 0rel » Logged
trabitboy
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« Reply #54 on: April 17, 2009, 05:01:53 AM »

weird... - the same message ("system cannot execute the specified program") again, on your older xp laptop?

no, crashes harder, window to send an error report to MS
will try your latest builds

OpenAL simply failed!
at least for small downloadable games.

I agree , scares me to use it too;
I try to produce things you can just unzip and dbl click .
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« Reply #55 on: April 17, 2009, 10:09:56 PM »

The decompressing is at the start is kind of annoying, other than that great game, very smooth controls.
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« Reply #56 on: April 18, 2009, 11:50:27 AM »

Awesome game, you rank first on my list at the moment (tested 2/3 of the games so far).
Yeah the uncompressing is very annoying (I almost quit before it ended)  and pointless, next time just upload the uncompressed sound samples.
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« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2009, 11:53:25 AM »

I actually quite liked the audio rendering at the start, but that's probably because I'm a music nerd. It's not decompressing all of the audio files, it's taking sequencer information from text files, and using samples (Which it does seem to decompress from ogg to WAV format) to render the music files as WAVs. Which is awesome, and it prompted me to poke around in the audio folder. That said, it probably would have made a bit more sense to include the music files as OGGs (There are about 50MB of WAVs, which would equate to about 5MB of OGGs); unless, of course, there was a technical reason why you couldn't use OGGs in-game.
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« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2009, 02:49:26 PM »

I think he was just being fancy
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« Reply #59 on: April 26, 2009, 11:45:26 AM »

great great great.  though, many of the missions i felt were for me a [frantic, though not particularly satisfying] dash for the cube.  i would welcome something more strategic + ... longerlly.

but yeah; the density of visual and gameplay styles feel like they could really comfortably be expanded to something much larger.


« Last Edit: April 26, 2009, 12:01:31 PM by stephen lavelle » Logged
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