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[Schoq]

putting in a bilinear checkbox doesn't take any effort

making it actually do something does though

lso those raen't scanlines those are just pixel gaps you have them horizontal too

I've implemeted such functionality with no effort and I'm the worst programmer, what's anyone else's excuse??

[ProgramGamer]

No experience programming shaders and that's it.

[Schoq]

why would you need shaders? all you do is basically figure out where to paste a single GL function, somewhere to do with the texture you're drawing to

[s0]

my excuse is: im dum

[Türbo Bröther]

Can we get wasp nest filters.

Don't you mean Hibachi grille.

[Richard Kain]

I do remember seeing scan-lines on TV screens. That kind of dates me. I was born in the 80s, but regularly used TVs with my video game systems from the 60s and 70s. Back then it was considerably more common for technology to last, and for people to hang onto their technology for a lot longer. And in my house hold, video games were a thing for the kids. My parents have never gotten into them the same way I have. So our video game playing was almost always relegated to a secondary screen, usually one that was a lot older and less capable. I had to play my NES on a black-and-white screen for almost 2 years because of this. First-world problems, but still, back then color was a luxury.

So yeah, I remember scan-lines, and frequently saw them as a part of video games. Putting scan-lines in a modern game is a purely aesthetic choice. It should probably be avoided unless you are specifically attempting to emulate an older style. Scan lines were a relic of dated technology, and not really a feature. I wouldn't put them in a modern game unless I was specifically trying to reference that dated technology. And I would hope that there were some purpose to such a reference other than just thinking that it looks cool.

[s0]

so were scalines just not visible on 90s TVs due advances in tech? because like i said, i don't remember ever noticing them on any TVs we had when i was a kid. i live in what used to be a PAL territory, so maybe that changes things? idk.

[Richard Kain]

Yes, as TV technology improved, scan-lines became increasingly less obvious. Even back in the day, purchasing a higher-quality screen could eliminate the issue. It was mainly lower-quality, mass-produced screens where you saw scanlines showing up. This was part of the reason why it was such a common trait in arcade games. Arcade monitors had to be relatively cheap and simple, because of how many of those cabinets were being produced. They also had to hold up under continuous use. (which often caused a lot of the visual quirks that they were known for)

And yes, living in a PAL territory could also have affected things. PAL territories got the SCART cable standard, which offered proper RGB support. This was basically one of the earliest forms of component video, and was consistently higher quality than video input from NTSC standard regions. Screens using that kind of standard in the 80s and 90s wouldn't have suffered as much from legacy video quirks like scan-lines.

With modern digital displays, such visual quirks are a true anachronism. Modern display technology has excised such throwbacks entirely. The only real visual artifacts we deal with these days are far more subtle, and not nearly as glaring. (mainly related to scaling and syncing issues)

[gimymblert]

Scanline is a dated artefact becoming aesthetics, there is no reason to forbid them at all, not more than forbidding black and white aesthetics just because they match your emotional understanding of tech. Now make diagonal scanline, I want scanline that aren't just flat horizontal scanline DAMN IT!

Fun thing, born in the 80s I caught the tail end of analog button BW TV, I don't remember scanline BUT I don't remember well the thickness of TV I know they were (we engage screen from the front and for the content), the only TV I remember the thickness was those where we engaged the thickness to hide the hooked nes and SNES we so we could play when we were forbidden to play (they were on pause under the line of sight when watching tv with my mother!). Fun time.

[Alevice]

I have noticed emulators have separate filters for scanlines (which usually just mean an alphaed zebra stripe) and ntsc, which includes pixle bleeding and other signal artifacts

[UmutD]

I don't remember seeing scanlines back then. But they definitely remind me that era when used in right circumstances.

Also, horizontal ones seem to fit better to modern monitors' aspect ratios. Perhaps it's like using soft gradient lights / (add-overlay blend modes) with pixel art, if it looks good and consistent enough, nobody seem to care much if it is faithful to original limitations of old hardware.

[Schoq]

dumb fact: vertical monitors (like arcade shmups) had vertical scanlines so if you wanna emulate that do it right

[MeshGearFox]

what if vertical monitors are just horizontal monitors flipped turnways

like

you go into an arcade and ask the guy how they get vertical monitors
and he just smiles
picks up a horizontal monitor
says
"let me show you how I work this"
he puts the thing down
flips it
and reverse it

[ProgramGamer]

That would be correct I believe.

[Türbo Bröther]

Telling the work experience kids to get the vertical monitors out of the truck is the arcade workers version of asking them to get a left-handed spanner.

[Schoq]

what if vertical monitors are just horizontal monitors flipped turnways

ya I'm pretty sure that's how it works

my favourite moment in my life (it made me feel like I'm in the know) was when I played some vertical shooter in taito legends and noticed a vertically offsetting raster effects on a background and I was like "whoa hey how could a scanline dependent visual effect like that be--OH RIGHT!!"

[MeshGearFox]

i need to pick up another copy of TL2, the last one I got had some issue and GDarius wouldn't work. And GDarius was the entire reason I got that so

[Raptor85]

the problem i have with scanline emulation is I've yet to really see it done right, TV "pixels" on NES/SNES era devices didnt have square pixels, they had wide rectangular pixels that overlapped each other making horizontal lines essentially invisible, it was PC monitors of that era that had visible horizontal lines. The tv's were a bit darker and kinda dithered the edges of the pixels together due to the offset + interlacing (making edges generally look smooth from a distance).  They weren't even single pixels, more like 3 side by side vertical rectangles, one of each color, with a smaller gap between them then the large gap between the main "pixels".  The emulation I've seen in almost everything makes everything look like an old mac with a dying tube more than an old console.

[Dim_Yimma_H]

Yeah Raptor, I definitely have those 3 sub pixels with quite a lot of blackspace inbetween them, on my curved TV screen from the late ninteties. Doesn't look like classic scanlines. Would like that curved screen effect in emulation too.

[s0]

the problem i have with scanline emulation is I've yet to really see it done right, TV "pixels" on NES/SNES era devices didnt have square pixels, they had wide rectangular pixels that overlapped each other making horizontal lines essentially invisible, it was PC monitors of that era that had visible horizontal lines. The tv's were a bit darker and kinda dithered the edges of the pixels together due to the offset + interlacing (making edges generally look smooth from a distance).  They weren't even single pixels, more like 3 side by side vertical rectangles, one of each color, with a smaller gap between them then the large gap between the main "pixels".  The emulation I've seen in almost everything makes everything look like an old mac with a dying tube more than an old console.

yeh, that's also why early 3d console games tend to look a little less dated on crt TVs. the dithering makes edges look slightly smoother and gives an illusion of additional depth. playing these games on an emulator in 4k with a HD texture pack just emphasizes their lowpoly nature and the flatness of the textures.