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[jamesprimate]

http://siliconangle.com/blog/2015/10/30/indiecade-co-chair-john-sharp-steps-down-says-the-conference-doesnt-really-help-indie-devs/

This is an interesting and refreshingly honest take. What do you guys think? Personally, I've always been a little puzzled by the gamedev / conference ouroborous.

[starsrift]

I've always been confused by it as well, jamesprimate. If for no other reason than that someone established enough - whether for reasons of extreme creativity, tapping into cultural zeitgeist, dumb luck, or canniness - someone who's 'made it' has nothing to say to someone who's come close enough to earn nuggets of wisdom from those who 'made it' from those very same opportunities.

More specifically, indies don't get success on something formulaic, teachable, and transferable. A's, B's, C's, and D-list studios do. Sure. But actual indies don't get nothing from it. Your garage developer either has the perverse mix of skills and talent that it takes, or they don't. Period.

I'm deep into a bottle of Crown Royal right now.

[erebusman]

http://siliconangle.com/blog/2015/10/30/indiecade-co-chair-john-sharp-steps-down-says-the-conference-doesnt-really-help-indie-devs/

This is an interesting and refreshingly honest take. What do you guys think? Personally, I've always been a little puzzled by the gamedev / conference ouroborous.

Yeah I also am confused by very especially the Indie GameDev / Conference Ourobourous myself!

Most indie's don't have enough money to do these things; and what money they do have they could be better spent on production quality of their game.

To spend thousands on a conference that is unlikely to change the overall reception of their game seems foolhardy at best and at worst career ending. I wonder how many people have completely busted their budget and failed after over-extending to go to a conference/expo?

I certainly won't do it until my game is already making buckets of money and I feel the investment will likely result it a lot of media attention and further my sales/bottom line. At the current rate this means never :-) But still I'm just saying ..

[joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Would be interested in hearing what conferences you three have attended and your experiences with them.

Going with people I know has always resulted in me meeting other developers, making friends, sometimes getting freelance jobs, etc. Putting a few hundred developers in a park or a party or a floor together is extremely valuble community building, especially considering how dire the situation is for most cities' local communities.

That said, indiecade in my experience was not particularly successful at these things -- attending talks costs a fortune (~$500 for a pass) and the venues were not very good. I admire what they do and put together considering their resources tho!

[TeeGee]

To spend thousands on a conference that is unlikely to change the overall reception of their game seems foolhardy at best and at worst career ending. I wonder how many people have completely busted their budget and failed after over-extending to go to a conference/expo?

Quite a few of those recent "we're closing our indie studio" postmortems (like Bounden guys for instance) mentioned costly and frequent conference attendance. I always wondered if they'd survive if they spent that money (and time!) on releasing more games instead. Imho it's quite probable.

I love conferences (at least the local ones I can afford), but I fully realize they are simply fun parties for those who already made it and the rich kids. Talks are cool to listen to, but they don't really convey any new or transferrable knowledge. You're mostly there to nod in agreement and have a good time. "Networking" is basically high-fiving your idols and online buddies at that after party, and exhibiting (which actually can have some value) is reserved to those who already have plenty of money.

Also, if you're an outsider in any way, the first few times you go, you'll get even less out of it. The elitist yulluminati conspiracy theories might be a tad exaggerated, but it's obvious people hang out with their established crews and it's hard to break in. Especially as a surprising amount of indies are very young and a little high on fame, resulting in that "do I even know you!" attitude. You have to attend a few times before you go from "some rando" to "part of the community", and that's usually out of budget for any new indie developer, especially if they aren't coming from US or West EU.

So yeah, I'd agree that conferences aren't helping the little guy. And I'm looking forward to what John comes up with next.

[s0]

inability to attend any "indie events" is one of the things that made me stop pursuing game dev as a career.

[desdemian]

inability to attend any "indie events" is one of the things that made me stop pursuing game dev as a career.

So now, since they are useless, you have one less thing stopping you!

[s0]

maybe, but there are more important reasons too.

[foreignsubstances]

maybe, but there are more important reasons too.

What kind of reasons, if you don't mind my asking? My curiosity is piqued.

[s0]

the number one reason is lack of passion. i found out that i find game dev boring and exhausting after several years of doing it. if i was still super passionate about making games, i would put up with all the other stuff.

[Superb Joe]

pigscene was is and always will be correct,

[gimymblert]

Piscene is still the only scene with an actual theme song

[sandy]

indycade is boring as hell u__u

[sandy]

gdc itself also boring as hell; every1 knows buying a pass is a waste of hundreds of $. u'll get just as much good stuff (contacts, jobs, etc.) hanging out at all the afterparties

[gimymblert]

GDC vault is where the hype is though

[sandy]

oh ya thats the other thing: any talks u wana see are posted online anyway

[sandy]

To spend thousands on a conference that is unlikely to change the overall reception of their game seems foolhardy at best and at worst career ending. I wonder how many people have completely busted their budget and failed after over-extending to go to a conference/expo?

Quite a few of those recent "we're closing our indie studio" postmortems (like Bounden guys for instance) mentioned costly and frequent conference attendance. I always wondered if they'd survive if they spent that money (and time!) on releasing more games instead. Imho it's quite probable.

i personally know devs who've spent 10s of thousands of USD on conference and travel costs because it was the Common Knowledge thing to do; more often than not its a really, really bad investment for small devs. 5k+ for a single booth and if you're not planning things properly and scheduling visits/interviews with game journos, all u get is some paltry foot traffic, less than you'd get if you'd taken that 5k, hired a (real) professional to make ur trailer, and posted a link to it to X forum. the math behind it just doesn't work out.

esp if you're a solo dev, or if you're not paying any freelancers/salaries, those 10s of thousands can buy u years of dev time (in living expenses).

[foreignsubstances]

the number one reason is lack of passion. i found out that i find game dev boring and exhausting after several years of doing it. if i was still super passionate about making games, i would put up with all the other stuff.

Yeah, I can understand that. I played in bands for years and years, had some successes, but ultimately quit the modestly successful group because the reality of traveling around all day to entertain people late at night just didn't appeal to me. Plus the music and being in a band itself started to lose its appeal as I got into other things.

No reason to grind away, sacrificing so much pursuing something that doesn't do it for you anymore.

[jamesprimate]

gdc itself also boring as hell; every1 knows buying a pass is a waste of hundreds of $. u'll get just as much good stuff (contacts, jobs, etc.) hanging out at all the afterparties

ive shown at sooooo many game/dev conferences (always for free), and can say without a doubt that the usefulness of the "business contacts" angle is ridiculously exaggerated, regardless of how visible or popular you are.

like we had a game that was an IGF finalist and got a special booth at GDC. literally hundreds of big name people, publishers, etc stopped by and gave us cards saying they were super into the game and wanted to talk business further later, etc. came home with an absurd stack of business cards. i emailed every single one of them when i got back and *not a single one* replied back. this has happened a number of times from different events with different games. (not rain world though, that hype is out of control)

Is the lack of response because they are bad people or hated us or something? no, its just that they probably talked to a thousand people and are tired from 5 days traveling and this or that etc. right after the event is a bad time and then anytime after that is also a bad time also because they are back to regular work, so whatev. if they want to get in contact they'll get in contact.

imho these events are pretty much antithetical to the actual business of gamedev, or even the networking. its a fantasyland of parties and hype and self congratulation. which is totally 10000% fine and awesome and very needed! but it kills me to see small budget indies feel its absolutely necessary to spend $5000 on a booth at one (or more) of these events and walk away with nothing but empty promises. changing the perception will do a lot of good.

[gimymblert]

(not rain world though, that hype is out of control)