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[GregWS]

The simple fact is that games as a medium has grown up a long time ago, it's just that most game developers are giant man-babies, who can't communicate any actually mature topics. The medium has absolutely no impact on how profound or important the work done in it is.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but most game developers, with a few exceptions, have absolutely nothing important to say and their games reflect that. There is nothing wrong with that, though. You don't have to be an intellectual to make fun games, but that's all they're ever going to be.

This.  And then there are even the ones who do have something to say, but don't really say it through their games.

[Zest]

I guess the question then is how do you find something to say, but I suppose that may be too big of a question to ask.

[Kneecaps]

I guess the question then is how do you find something to say, but I suppose that may be too big of a question to ask.

I think that the more you experience, the easier this becomes.  So, I guess broadening your horizons could help?  I don't know.

Also, I agree with Smithy in most cases.  Paul, while you sometimes provide neat insights, quite a bit of what you debate with people doesn't seem to help anyone.

Then again, most of my posts suck.  I guess the difference is that I talk less.  I'm going to bed now.

[Paul Eres]

I think most people have some wisdom or some interesting experience to share with others, it's kind of unavoidable. There's probably at least something that you know that would be interesting to people, some life event somewhere that's worth putting in a game or making a game about.

And again, I don't really consider it debating, I usually just state my thoughts on a subject, without the intent to convince anyone. I don't really even mean for it to be "helpful", I usually just want to present what I think about something. It might be helpful, it might not. It's at least helpful to me, since it helps develop my thoughts on things to put them into words.

[phubans]

Games growing up, huh? Is this what you have in mind?

http://www.whattheyplay.com/features/japanese-game-makes-rape-the-goal/

[Paul Eres]

Games growing up, huh? Is this what you have in mind?

http://www.whattheyplay.com/features/japanese-game-makes-rape-the-goal/

"Further, RapeLay contains two possible endings, both of them grisly. Apparently at random, one of the victims is able to stab Masaya to death during sex, thereby ending the game."

Haha, that's great. Kind of reminds me of the random death of the old lady in The Graveyard.

I think this part isn't true though: "It's understandable that young people who enjoy more normative Japanese anime might follow the path into related games, and from sunnier, less disturbing adult titles find their way to hearing of RapeLay." -- that reminds me of the 'people will start with marijuana and proceed to ever harder and more dangerous drugs' trope.

Anyway, I haven't played that game so I can't comment on its maturity. But it strikes me that a rape sim is not qualitatively worse than a murder sim or a stealing cars sim, and mainstream games have plenty of the later types.

[Lucaz]

Let's just ignore RapeLay. It's too lame to be worth discussing. Looking a couple of videos in google should give anyone a good idea of how the game is, there is almost nothing more in the game than what the videos show. Actually, I'd say it works more like interactive porn, than as a game.

[genericuser]

And besides, this topic is about handling (varying degrees of) mature topics in a mature way.

[Movius]

This thread reminds me of the south park episode where Cartman and Kenny think they've got their first period and started puberty, when it's really a bowel infection and they've started shitting blood. So they start their own puberty club to discuss 'mature' things like their periods.

[Paul Eres]

In the indiegamer.com forums, papillon mentioned this game as an example of a mature game, and reading its description I think it's a much better example than RapeLay, even though it's roughly in the same idea (Japanese erotic game):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yume_Miru_Kusuri

It combines the traditional "quest for sex" with the quest to solve a girl's life problems. There are three girls, each of which has a serious problem: bullying, drugs, and apathy. Each one has a good and bad ending (so a total of six endings). It seems like regardless of whether or not you solve a girl's central problem, the main character has sex with her at the end, but the resolution / future of the relationship may be good or bad.

Papillon also made the point that complaining about how few mature games there are is less productive than writing articles or talking about those few games that are mature, because by doing the latter you'd learn more about them and encourage people to play them and make more like them, whereas talking about all the immature ones just produces a feeling of hopelessness.

[Lucaz]

Indeed, Yume Miru Kusuri is great, I played it a few week ago. I'm very fond of the genre, and it's by far the best I've played, and the most emotionally involving game I've played. It deals with the issues it presents and with the characters in a quite serious and mature way, not going out of it's way to have sex scene, and has a good development of the characters and the plot. Actually, it's the only h-game I've played where sex scenes added something to the game, and where I readed them instead of just skipping.

But it has nothing to do with RapeLay. Both are japanese, and both have sex, but that as far as comparisons go.

Since wa are at it, Kana Little Sister is quite mature also. It's about a guy and his dying sister, them falling in love, and dealing with the fact she will die. It deals quite well with the issues, otherwhise it'd be laughable.

[Paul Eres]

Thanks for the review, I'll have to check it out eventually. It's fairly expensive though -- $35 is the price I see after some searching -- so I'll probably have to hold off on it for now (and I don't like pirating, especially reportedly mature games that we should be supporting).

I've also heard of that little sister game, but never tried it either.

And yes, I shouldn't have said they were similar, since they do seem about as different as two h-games can be.