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[Fuzz]

Another example: Gravity Bone.

[Tanner]

Yes, Masna. Show us a game you have made.

[letsap]

Ah man, I'm embarrassed for you. Poor guy.

I used to make games on grid paper

[moi]

Just though I'd bring up a topic that always pisses me the hell off.  Don't you hate people who think they're game devs just because they use something like Scratch, or this: http://www.challengeyou.com/, or even something like Little Big Planet?

I hate how people think, just because you can use a bad platform, don't know any code, and don't have any experience in game design that they can produce full blown games.

but aren't we all game making wannabes?
Who are we compared to geniuses the caliber of peter molyneux john carmack,Tim sweeney, etc...
Think about it, everybody is someone's wannabe, so please, respect the meat

[Zaratustra]

http://zarat.us/olc zomg

This thread is now about engines for limited design of games and levels.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை]

I think there are plenty of designers superior to john carmack and tim sweeny here, like increpare, cactus, etc.

[Melly]

John carmack is not a great game designer, he's a great programmer.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை]

Yeah, although I think he also invented the FPS genre? Or was that someone else?

[Melly]

Not certain about that. All I know is that he's a gigantic nerd.

[PGGB]

Yeah, although I think he also invented the FPS genre? Or was that someone else?

Well I'm pretty sure that this invention was not of one particular person but rather a group effort.

What is for sure is that Carmack is an exceptional programmer and mind, though no game designer. He never had that role as far as I know.

[Melly]

He just knows how to line the 0's and 1's to make zombie heads explode.

[moi]

John carmack is not a great game designer, he's a great programmer.

Yeah and that's exactly what Masna was on about.

[Lukas]

I don't think that we wouldn't have the FPS we know today without Carmack's (and his team's) ideas. I mean... it's all just too obvious.

But well... I guess the (especially technical) concepts they premiered gave the genre (and gaming overall) a good boost!



Oh and:

Masna, I don't think you should be pissed off at those guys because I don't even see you doing what they do. Make me a game and then I'll bash your argument.

Please tell that Phil Fish. Would you?



BaronCid

Oh and btw: Stop bashing Massena, people! What the heck?

[Renton]

Fish is making a game, is he not? I don't see Masna making a friggin' Megaman clone, let alone FUCKING FEZ.

[GregWS]

Regardless of FEZ, fish does GAMMA, and his graphic design work is incredible, so that's enough for me.

And being a proud GM user, I have to say that I can't stand this "programing it all yourself is the only good way" bollocks.  There's a reason gaming got a whole lot better when Nintendo hired Miyamoto, a designer, not a technically minded programmer, to work on their games.  Designers are good at design, and part of that is knowing the right level of technical detail, and not having to worry about it beyond a certain degree.  Architects have engineers do the math, because we're strong at design, not the highly technical aspects.  Engineers do the math because that's their strong point, not the design of buildings.  No different with game designers and game programmers.  There are always a gifted few that are good at both, and indie or mainstream, they stand out from the crowd.

But really, think about it, cactus' work is brilliant, and he uses GM because it works.  I think Paul has even said he could use more complex methods, but he uses GM because it works.  Obviously, when GM is limiting a design, then a different tool must be selected.  But when it doesn't weaken a design, then there's no reason it shouldn't be used.  Programming things entirely, as opposed to using tools, is the technical, non-designer way of approaching the problem, and as a designer I can't help but think it's really stupid, and takes away from the act of designing, and instead puts one's focus on technical concerns.

Sorry to be abrasive, but this whole thing really frustrates me.

[Lukas]

well even if Masna made/finished no games so far (did he?),
fish's "made games"-count is pretty much where Masna's is. (or is it?)

The only difference is that Fish can talk controversial one-line-crap all day and everyone seems to take him serious, unlike Masna who instead gets some nice bashing. Is the whole Fish-case a big in-TIGS-joke or am I simply overseeing some vital facts?

obtw: His Photoshops are nice, I really like them, but no games there.

[Melly]

Personally, I think we've had enough acid-spitting around here. What do you guys say we stop the hate?

[Don Andy]

The only difference is that Fish can talk controversial one-line-crap all day and everyone seems to take him serious, unlike Masna who instead gets some nice bashing. Is the whole Fish-case a big in-TIGS-joke or am I simply overseeing some vital facts?

I gave up being bothered about that.

[GregWS]

Sorry Melly.  It would probably be best if this thread were just locked. 

[moi]

The only difference is that Fish can talk controversial one-line-crap all day and everyone seems to take him serious, unlike Masna who instead gets some nice bashing. Is the whole Fish-case a big in-TIGS-joke or am I simply overseeing some vital facts?

I gave up being bothered about that.