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[mr. podunkian]

just wanted to get some feedback and maybe some ideas on a game i'm doing for a class so that i can graduate so that i can work on THAT GAME (that one game).

basically the idea behind the game is that it takes the data from a NES emulator in real time, and procedurally generates levels for a rockband game.

here's a really short video of it in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M5VmWDuRs0

it's really just a proof of concept at this stage, and the graphics as well as some of the algorithms for generating the levels, aren't done. still, it's nice to see the thing working at a fundamental level.

the website for the project is here.

the reason i'm putting this here, though, is because there are some features that i've sort of been considering that i'm not entirely sure about. the idea behind the game is that the people playing the game are essentially acting as the NES hardware -- following the instructions (literally) that are stored in the NES rom and acting them out.

but i also want to have some degree of interaction between the players of the NES emulator and the people playing the rockband game.

one idea i had was to have it be a competitive thing -- since the player of the NES emulator can mess with the people playing the rockband game by making a lot of noise (jumping a lot, shooting a lot, whatever), i had considered having it so that if the rockband players do well enough (maybe fill up a bar), they can collectively unleash some sort of attack on the NES emulator that distorts their screen or maybe locks their controller input for some time.

another idea i had was to have the game be easier for the NES emulator player to play if the rockband players are doing well. for instance, maybe the NES window swaying around a bit unless the people playing the rockband game start playing more notes consecutively, which would lessen the sway until it's completely still. this kind of goes a little better with the concept behind the game, but i'm still a little hesitant to impose some sort of arbitrary rules, especially if they don't go completely in line with my original idea.

so basically, i guess what i'm looking for here is both feedback on the project itself, as well as suggestions as to how i shold bridge the gap between the NES emulator players and the rockband players, as well as ideas in general.

[Don Andy]

one idea i had was to have it be a competitive thing -- since the player of the NES emulator can mess with the people playing the rockband game by making a lot of noise (jumping a lot, shooting a lot, whatever), i had considered having it so that if the rockband players do well enough (maybe fill up a bar), they can collectively unleash some sort of attack on the NES emulator that distorts their screen or maybe locks their controller input for some time.

I was musing about a game like that just a few days ago. I just would've never thought of taking existing NES games for that. So, I also would like to see it like that (competitive).

But it's in either way a really awesome idea. Especially seeing that it fundamentally already works.

Keep going man

[Noyb]

Awesome concept!

One thing I'm still confused about is the changeability of the soundtrack. What happens when a player's action causes a sound to play instantaneously? Does the NES have a sound buffer that can't be changed once committed? Is there a small delay between the visuals of the emulation and the sound of the band?

My first thought about band -> player interaction is the LUA scripting capabilities of some modern emulators. It would be insanely cool to have precoded "hacks" that add extra lives, spawn a star, or generally useful perks to the player if the band is doing well. To be fair, it would definitely take a significant amount of time to add this feature, which also takes away much of the robustness of the concept since this would need to be implemented on a per-ROM basis.

Realistically, the concept is compelling enough that having the player fail when the band fails would probably work. Hmm... thinking further, is there even a way to tell if a player loses a generic NES game?

Ooh, maybe the band can have control over save states as a limited resource that is replenished by good performance.

[mr. podunkian]

One thing I'm still confused about is the changeability of the soundtrack. What happens when a player's action causes a sound to play instantaneously? Does the NES have a sound buffer that can't be changed once committed? Is there a small delay between the visuals of the emulation and the sound of the band?

there's a delay of about 3 seconds as the notes need time to scroll to the bottom of the screen. as this project is intended to be displayed in an installation of some sort, i'm planning on having two screens on two computers with the audio from the NES emulator going to a set of noise-cancelling headphones and the audio from the rockband game coming out through an amp/speakers.

[vdgmprgrmr]

This seems like it could be really cool, but I'm sensing a problem.

I feel like there would be too much disconnect between the players. One group would be playing an emulator, and another would be playing a rhythm game, but they wouldn't actually interact with each other all that much. It seems like it would be two totally different games, but with a small connection, whereas for multiplayer games, the more connection, usually the better it is.

[sergiocornaga]

the idea behind the game is that the people playing the game are essentially acting as the NES hardware -- following the instructions (literally) that are stored in the NES rom and acting them out.

Seeing as this is the case, it would be great if failing at the Rock Band part of the game caused the NES ROM to glitch up, or corrupted a random byte from the ROM or something. This might also help to connect the emulator players with the Rock Band players a bit more...

[Navineous]

Would it work with the rockband guitar?

[Bremze]

The concept sounds great but if it might be hard to make players compete because most ways for the emulator player to influence the rhythm player could only be made for some of the roms.
I think it would be fun to make both parts go faster if the rhythm player did well.

[mr. podunkian]

The concept sounds great but if it might be hard to make players compete because most ways for the emulator player to influence the rhythm player could only be made for some of the roms.
I think it would be fun to make both parts go faster if the rhythm player did well.

that's kind of the point though. it really depends on whether the person on the emulator wants to play super aggressively (to make things harder for the band players and maybe easier for himself) or play super conservatively (to make things easier for the band players but maybe harder from themselves). it brings out a level of emergent gameplay which i think is really interesting. again, competition isn't really the main point of the project, but it's something i'm kind of looking into.

[agj]

It's a pretty amazing concept. Pretty meta.

Anyway, I suggest that you move away a bit from the Guitar Hero influence. For one, your game is not about guitars, nor heroes. The interface (meant to imitate a guitar's neck) doesn't make much sense, given this. So, yeah, I do think you can do something different for the interface, that will make the interesting concepts in your game stand out so much more. Maybe take inspiration in the innards of an NES, or something of the sort.

[Ishi]

Am I the only person who would be happy just playing chiptunes through it rather than the whole gameplay integration element? Not sure how fun playing random jump sounds would be (don't be discouraged though!). It looks awesomely cool at the moment. 

[mr. podunkian]

It's a pretty amazing concept. Pretty meta.

Anyway, I suggest that you move away a bit from the Guitar Hero influence. For one, your game is not about guitars, nor heroes. The interface (meant to imitate a guitar's neck) doesn't make much sense, given this. So, yeah, I do think you can do something different for the interface, that will make the interesting concepts in your game stand out so much more. Maybe take inspiration in the innards of an NES, or something of the sort.

well as i've said, i'm really doing this project for a class, and the reason that there's a guitar/bass/drum set up is because i'm using the metaphor of a band to describe how the NES hardware works. it actually works out pretty well, and it's explained in the longer 'about' section on the site.

[Bennett]

I would say that the gameplay choices you make depend a lot on the NES games you'll use. It probably doesn't make sense to try to set up the game so it works equally well with all NES games. Pick a few where the style of the game works for your gameplay setup - for example, if you wanted it to be competitive, don't choose a game where the player can just hammer on the A button sixteen times a second (like Gradius).

- A cooperative model would be a game with a health bar, which is hacked so that the health bar gradually drains but is replenished by good guitar playing

- A creative model would be a vertical shooter, where the shots that leave the top of the screen are recreated as notes coming down the guitar board - and then when the guitar guys play the notes, it makes a sound - so that the NES player can dictate a little tune for the guitar people by shooting in the right places.

[shinymans]

would It be possible to play the guitar part singleplayer by running a demo of someone playing in the emulator?

[matriax]

I think a version for a Iphone will be great