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[s0]

it'd be cool if interactive fiction got a mainstream revival similar to the one roguelikes are undergoing atm.

[Udderdude]

Harry Potter: The Interactive Fiction could easily sell 100 billion copies or so.

[ClayB]

I wish we were past the interactive game story stuff like heavy rain. I don't care if the story branches out in a million ways if every story branch is stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid. Just tell a good story that makes sense for the gameplay.

[gimymblert]

Not really sure if roguelike are getting "mainstream" but at least more designer are paying attention to IF but that's the effect of the surge of "stars" like Emily Short, much like VN get some attention because of Christine love.

Right now we got versu and twine as spiritual descendant.

@ClayB
That's as stupid as saying brown shooter

[Udderdude]

The brown note.

[s0]

Not really sure if roguelike are getting "mainstream"

welp "indie mainstream" i guess. like idk, going from a tiny niche genre dismissed as "archaic" by most ppl to a... uhm... slightly bigger niche genre lol.

I wish we were past the interactive game story stuff like heavy rain. I don't care if the story branches out in a million way if every story branch is stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid.

i just find the irony of being all artsy fartsy about ur games and then making something thats slightly above a CSI episode amusing.

[Bandages]

I woke up and someone was using the shower, no biggie. They finished, so I started to mosey over and whoop someone else swooped in.

They've been in there for twenty fucking minutes so far.

I live with 4 guys.

Who in the fuck takes a 20 minute shower???



e: Dan takes a 20 minute shower.

[gimymblert]

Not really sure if roguelike are getting "mainstream"

welp "indie mainstream" i guess. like idk, going from a tiny niche genre dismissed as "archaic" by most ppl to a... uhm... slightly bigger niche genre lol.

I wish we were past the interactive game story stuff like heavy rain. I don't care if the story branches out in a million way if every story branch is stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid.

i just find irony of being all artsy fartsy about ur games and then making something thats slightly above a CSI episode amusing.

That is because the threshold is low, very very low, that's telling. I'm yeah, I can argue how a saint seya ep. is more complex that most game narrative (even with the awfully and sadly bad english dubs).

[s_l_m]

I don't think that writing in video games is just across the board terrible. I think you are looking at a specific style of story ("artsy", usually involves somebody delivering introspective monologues while walking through a city with overcast weather, you know the type). Then you point to that style and say "look, games do this so much worse than other mediums, therefore game writing sucks". I think that games have an extremely strong history with some types of story, especially comedic writing (recently deceased LucasArts is the elephant in the room here, but there are others). Just because games don't have as strong of a tradition of what the rest of the world has deemed to be "serious writing" doesn't mean it is a medium completely devoid of story tellers. It's like if somebody was to point to Disney and say they can't tell stories because they use funny animals to tell them.

Also, completely destroying what I just said. The Longest Journey series can (imo) do the "serious" style just as good as most movies, and I have never played the Syberia series but I hear it is similar. And there are lots of RPG's that have OK stories too

[ink.inc]

why do people keep pointing to the longest journey and dreamfall as examples of good storytelling ;/

[s_l_m]

why do people keep pointing to the longest journey and dreamfall as examples of good storytelling ;/

I like Longest Journey (and to a lesser extent, Dreamfall, but I am fully willing to admit that game does have some pretty big flaws) because of how the characters act and talk like real people instead of becoming archtypes. I also love the sense of humor that prevents the games from being too dark. The fact that the stories are absolutely unpredictable is also a big plus for me. I hate being able to guess what is coming next in a story, it ruins it for me

[ClayB]

Who in the fuck takes a 20 minute shower???

[gimymblert]

@S_l_m
there is a difference between what game CAN do and what are they are effectively doing. And it's not just the serious stuff. And any writing that rely solely on cutscene is not game writing. IMO the death of aeris is much more than a cutscene (the game play section just before is relevant to the impact), while unchartred is mostly a reenacting cinematic where the gameplay takes the same role as cutscene in other games.

[Sar]

I wish we were past the interactive game story stuff like heavy rain. I don't care if the story branches out in a million ways if every story branch is stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid. Just tell a good story that makes sense for the gameplay.

I wish we had more interactive game story stuff, but interactive game story stuff that actually worked. :/

And any writing that rely solely on cutscene is not game writing. IMO the death of aeris is much more than a cutscene (the game play section just before is relevant to the impact)

Absolutely! I'd also refer to Deus Ex, which thirteen years later is still the first example I can think of off the top of my head which had story/branching mechanics decently integrated into the actual game rather than abstracted out of it with context-breaking choice menus or whatever.

Not that there's anything inherently wrong with a game which runs you through a story which is entirely told via cutscenes interspersed between the game sections, but... it's not the best the medium can do.

[s0]

one problem imo is that most game stories have already been told (and usually better) in films and/or books. games are good at atmosphere and exploration and etc, but right now they're kinda bad at actual narratives.

[Sar]

one problem imo is that most game stories have already been told (and usually better) in films and/or books.

To be honest, though, most film stories have already been told in films and/or books, but that doesn't stop them turning out some damn fine movies every now and again.

Games have the potential to deliver a much more powerful narrative than a movie or a book simply because the player's level of immersion is potentially that much greater, and their feelings of agency are potentially that much greater... I suspect that the problem is more that game designers realise that and rely on the immersion and the feeling of agency as a crutch rather than a launchpad.

(Not to blame them for it necessarily; there's only so much one can do working to a deadline and most players probably prefer the guns to feel right and the blood splatters look realistic than the story to be engaging.)

[s0]

one problem imo is that most game stories have already been told (and usually better) in films and/or books.

To be honest, though, most film stories have already been told in films and/or books, but that doesn't stop them turning out some damn fine movies every now and again.

that's true but game stories are usually more derivative. they just copy what's already there w/o really understanding it.

Games have the potential to deliver a much more powerful narrative than a movie or a book

idk about "powerful" but i think games at least have the potential to develop their own unique narrative forms (actually they already did, they just need to go further with them).

[SirNiko]

Narrative in games does have the advantage that the player has no choice but to take responsibility for decisions they make. In a movie or book, when the hero makes some tragic mistake, like giving in to greed or jealously at a critical moment, you can just turn up your nose at him or her and insist you would've done better. In a game with branching choices, (for example, The Witcher) the player is the one deciding who lives, who dies, or succeeding or failing to solve problems. When you decide to reject one person for another, or kill a person instead of letting them live, you're stuck with the choice.

Of course, if a game does it poorly (eg, your choices are railroaded or the rewards are unbalanced) you lose that effect, but a badly written book can suffer the same problem.

[:^)]

so is the witcher like, really friggin good or wot?

should I have played my copy by now?

[SirNiko]

It's pretty good, I think.

The combat is action-y which is pretty fun, and you have a lot of choices for how to upgrade your skills and weapons, though it doesn't change the basic game a whole lot. The potion making does a good job of making you feel like a real monster hunting expert. You read the books, plan out how you'll kill the monsters, then equip yourself with the right potions and oils to do it. You feel like you're really role playing a master monster slayer.

Where it shines is the game has a bunch of places where you can make choices that influence the story in relatively minor ways (nothing that will get you a different ending, but it will determine who is your friend and enemy, and sometimes will result in major characters behaving very differently, if they even survive) but the game highlights the choices and makes it very clear what results came from what decisions. Some of them are pretty long term, too, usually there's at least a full chapter in between making a decision and seeing the outcome.

If you like WRPGs you'll probably enjoy it. It drags a bit in the middle when you spend two chapters in the same town, but it comes together in the end.