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[Tanner]

good post manbaby. i agree with it

[gimymblert]

Hey people the gdc is soon where do you keep in touch with news and report from the events?

[s0]

Don't forget that the ideal game to go against those form of game is tetris aka game don't need plot, I would argue that movie doesn't too (transformers plot is taking a backsit for the spectacle which is as legit as story) but we are now train to expect plot in some form so it must be at least serviceable (ie plot hole not to be too apparent they are distracting).

no one gives a fuck about abstract film. rip.

[gimymblert]

It's everywhere, it's called motion design, it's now in every clip, every movie and series intro, every ads, it's in your favorite anime, it's on youtube, it's in your games, it's everywhere It's like some genre it get absorbed back in the greater language.

also unity 5 is free, like free no limit no constrain, no nothing it's pro but free

[SirNiko]

...

I can agree with some of this. A 'game' doesn't need to be game-like to be worthwhile (I like 'walking simulators' especially). I'm not arguing that it's bad because it lacks game elements.

The problem is exactly what you state: "it doesn't seem to want to achieve a deep emotional impression on the player, or really achieve anything other than presenting an experience." The 'experience' it provides is shallow and contradictory to its own premise (the little girl shows no comprehension whatsoever of her dolls, not even attempting to pose them in ways she does understand like simple hugging and kissing). It fails at the only thing it even attempts.

Your description is vague enough that it could apply to any game and doesn't state why this one is more deserving than the others. "It also reflects the devs themselves, it's exciting in that regard," means nothing because a player is never introduced to the devs.

Saying it was made in a weekend jam just proves that barely any time was put into making this game.

You folks are welcome to like it but I don't see it.

[gimymblert]

Yonkoma is all what I need to say



Obviously don't measure up to a full length manga? but is it the point?

It's obvious some people don't get slice of life story at all so why they would get game like that? EVERYTHING MUST BE ALL CAPS EPIC




The game has the exact same structure: mother >> doll >> mother

[SirNiko]

The length of the game isn't the problem, it's that nothing happens during it. It's a brief vignette that fails to explore any new ground yet is in the running for an award in innovation/novelty. I don't disagree with folks liking the game or connecting with the scenario. I disagree with it being held up as an example of something new or exceptional.

[s0]

the game itself isnt anything new, but its part of a new thing.

who cares about awards

[gimymblert]

It is because GAMES is not there yet (the same place as comics), we are still blowing up shit and randomly wander aimlessly as mandatory gameplay.

We are all gamer for a very long time, I have done professional game design, you have the right to not get it, but at least I just want to show that there is argument for. Those game are not widespread enough to be panned. Other game have made stride but using more dramatic settings or device, it's never sure that we can make and show non dramatic things such as this one.

[s0]

when almost everything is EPIC, a game about everyday people doing everyday things becomes exciting.

[gimymblert]

BTW the current (narrative) design graal isn't if game can make you cry (hahahahahahaha) it is how well you can do introspection. We are not there yet, if you can point to a sequence in game that does it more or less well (like the scarecrow sequence in batman) don't hesitate.

[Ammypendent]

Meanwhile at GDC...

[SirNiko]

The Sims is one of the highest grossing game franchises that exists from the single most mainstream publisher there is and it is literally a game about everyday people doing everyday things.

Simulations, visual novels and RPGs have been exploring ordinary, non-epic scenarios for ages. Games like Persona 4 even combine both worlds, giving players epic stories contrasted with their characters ordinary real lives.

Why do you think this is a new thing?

[gimymblert]

because they do it through mere exposition or abstract distance, relatively little shift in modality, think of the invention of framing language and editing in cinema. You can still tell that cinema hasn't move beyond theater if you disregard that little invention. It's small step at this point, maybe that's the concern of you, it's too small, but for us it's promising because we literally tell ourselves we couldn't have invented it and don't know why, there is a broadening and realization coming from this game that won't be repeated with clone. Like the sprinkler sprinkled, you can look at what comes just before and just after and see little difference, yet it was a step. I mean look at gone home and how it present the personal story in a non personal way (exploration of an empty house). Zelda is great too but yet the quest structure make you more of a witnesses (it's not a first person narration like HDYDI) and Visual novel is generally presentation with only choice at breaking point. There is a level of nuance also in the theme chosen you don't usually, see, we have mundane story more that very personal story to that level, Like I said it could be better, for example I mistook the progression system while playing it, but it still open my mind on new way to do this kind of stuff while I were bog down by convention.

[gimymblert]

Meanwhile at GDC...

That's crazy time, and you thought that having a race to the bottom for game was the start, now race to the bottom for game engine. UE4 has royalties, unity has asset store, source 2 have fucking steam ...

[kriyo_funions]

...

so like I connect this with tastes, why I like this game.  I connect it to why I like reading Humans of New York, or Humans of Blankity Blankcity.  I like reading about people, I like reading their stories, seeing into their life and the way they think about and approach things.  That's kind of the charm of this, one of the dev's childhood quirky memories of trying to relate to sex.  What's yours?  Everyone has different stories about when they were learning about sex. 

At the same time from a personal dev perspective, it's not really about the subject matter so much as everyone has a story, and games as just as any other medium can tell them.  Games often don't show the hand of the developer, it's all about the product and potential franchise, all about what's fun and engaging, what can turn a buck, devoid of hands.  This kind of work says "hey this medium can have soul." If a dev does that I'm more than likely going to enjoy that work, whether it's quirky, humorous, or challenges me and I'm going to understand something about the developer.  Like lightbulb I can make work that matters to me, divorced from my own ideas of what games should feel and be like, I can pick and mix in parts of my experience, and that people are doing that.  They made and shared something about themselves.  hey that's fuckin' cool.  the coolest.  It's like also why I'm enjoying Adventure Time more after watching interviews of Pendleton Ward.  He likes to think of his characters as real people and what real people would say and do in the context of fantasy and magic, this is how he played D&D.  The dialogue and relations between characters in that show are various, like the kind of too-real dynamic between finn and his dad even though it's set in fictional setting.  Like "where does that material come from?" cause it comes from somewhere.

Also comparisons don't really work here, or suggesting thematic and mechanical improvements, because then it would be a different game, a different story.  Comparisons are often subjective and narrow minded, having everything to do with the tastes and perspectives of the one making them.  A does not have to be compared to B, A can just be A, things can stand on their own.

[airman4]

It's everywhere, it's called motion design, it's now in every clip, every movie and series intro, every ads, it's in your favorite anime, it's on youtube, it's in your games, it's everywhere It's like some genre it get absorbed back in the greater language.

also unity 5 is free, like free no limit no constrain, no nothing it's pro but free

source 2 is free as well

hahaha this is crazy

[SirNiko]

Good discussion.

I still feel like Kriyo's arguments are too generic and could apply to anything, though I generally agree that there's value in people creating works that showcase their own experiences even if the works or experiences are mediocre or mundane. It's worthwhile to create an experience if it resonates with a tiny minority of people who generally don't get catered too, and it's worthwhile to explore emotional states without the need for much or any action to go along with it.

I can't really argue with Gimmy because I don't have a background in film and half of what you're saying means nothing to me. Gone Home isn't completely new, it's just Bioshock with a more mundane setting and no combat, but I did find it notable and worthy of praise because its technique is less common and that particular example showed effort (D*Souls uses the same storytelling technique but does not make it the central point of the game). The Sprinkler Sprinkled was something new that hadn't been tried before in film. Video games are long past the point where a video game equivalent of Sprinkler is pushing the medium or even uncommon.

[st33d]

also unity 5 is free, like free no limit no constrain, no nothing it's pro but free

Nooope.

They've decided to crack down on not enough Pro licences being bought. You can't share any assets between a Pro copy or a Personal copy.

For a solo indie this is fine. But if that solo indie wants to do some freelance for a bigger company then they can't. Unity 5 marks assets as made with Personal or Pro - you can't mix the two.

Read the licence agreement sheeple! 

[J-Snake]

Too little skill, but too many engines... -> broken games