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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralFight Thread Pollution! Post here if it's not worth a new thread!!!
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Author Topic: Fight Thread Pollution! Post here if it's not worth a new thread!!!  (Read 2311701 times)
gimymblert
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« Reply #20360 on: March 31, 2015, 07:25:59 AM »

Or maybe visor, an underused mechanics in first person game, is more important as a mechanic to acess than shooting? There have been perfectly playable shooter on GC like time splitters. Also the GC works perfectly because the way the button are map (around a central button) make them more accessible to many player. I have no problem with diamond disposition as I put my thumb in the middle and slightly rotate it to make all combinaisons of presses possibles (as if I'm using a D-pad, I don't move the thumb at all), but I have seen many people getting mad at it when trying to shift buttons as they hold their thumb diferently and the GC was pefect for them.
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« Reply #20361 on: March 31, 2015, 07:32:47 AM »

this feels sort of relevant here?





i.e. metroid wasnt necessarily made to be an fps just because it has a first person view and a gun
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J-Snake
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« Reply #20362 on: March 31, 2015, 07:40:35 AM »

Why watching youtube videos when you can have a critical mind of your own. It doesn't really matter whether it's an fps or not. A game is ideally designed around its native input device.
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« Reply #20363 on: March 31, 2015, 07:43:03 AM »

Also the GC works perfectly because the way the button are map (around a central button) make them more accessible to many player.
Note that it is you who is calling it ideal. What gives the central button more credit than any other face button? Nothing. It's a gimmicky placement. Any of the face buttons should have equal "rights". They are in the same domain of access.
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oahda
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« Reply #20364 on: March 31, 2015, 07:47:55 AM »

Why watching youtube videos when you can have a critical mind of your own.
i dont think hearing someone elses idea stops that Sad
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J-Snake
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« Reply #20365 on: March 31, 2015, 07:55:02 AM »

I can also be that someone else, not necessarily someone making youtube vids.
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« Reply #20366 on: March 31, 2015, 08:31:56 AM »

I've decided I eat too much food in general, all my exercise only just keeps up with intake and doesn't reduce any existing bodyfat. So I've tried to change my diet to my regular lunch but breakfast and dinner replaced with a handful of almonds or rice crackers or whatever.

So far it's making me feel really tired all the time, am I dying google?

"Too much" isn't going to sound right. Food's easier to measure in calories not size, a stomach can't tell the difference and metabolism prefers a lot, a lot of fiber.

There are two potential problems in play. Overexercise and lack of green leaves in your diet. I won't be able to figure out which even if you told me everything.

Take a day off every week, thinking hard also causes muscle strain. For thyroid stability you only need to be on your feet about 1 hour 5 days of the week, relaxed. Body building only takes about 40 minutes maximum per week. ( Can't be bothered to hunt down the sources. )

You can eat many green leaves and vegetables, they have fiber, low calories, and they're much better than taking a pill.

I don't know if I eat this much... http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=55983

Nuts are high in calories and partial protein. You need protein, but probably less than you think.

Drink plenty of water. I figured out a month or two ago I need to hold in my stomach after drinking to absorb water or it goes straight through. Also need filtered water or I feel itchy.

How much water? " In general, you should try to drink between half an ounce and an ounce of water for each pound you weigh, every day. " ( http://www.webmd.com/diet/water-for-weight-loss-diet?page=2 )
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gimymblert
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« Reply #20367 on: March 31, 2015, 08:51:26 AM »

Also the GC works perfectly because the way the button are map (around a central button) make them more accessible to many player.
Note that it is you who is calling it ideal. What gives the central button more credit than any other face button? Nothing. It's a gimmicky placement. Any of the face buttons should have equal "rights". They are in the same domain of access.

What makes giving all buttons the same weight? nothing. It's a gimmicky placement. Having a button with more weight broadcast it's use for primary action of games ie jump for platformer, shoot for shooter ... secondary functions on button of less weight as they don't have the same domain of frequency of use (pick weapon only happen occasionally) and also direct novices because they need to learn the primary actions first to navigate through the game.

BTW I didn't imply it was "ideal" I said it make sense, stop distorting my words Giggle

I am that someone else : P
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J-Snake
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« Reply #20368 on: March 31, 2015, 09:23:04 AM »

What makes giving all buttons the same weight? nothing.
Uncertainty of what the developer is trying to achieve, that gives the face buttons the same weight. Accessing shooting equally well as jumping can be critical, even when shooting is less frequently used. Sure, you can have a simple game with one or 2 main actions, but you are weakening your own argument by that, since you can control a simple game well with any reasonable input device.
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« Reply #20369 on: March 31, 2015, 09:36:29 AM »

I tend to agree that the huge button was a bit clumsy for some complex input games. Smash Bros Melee annoys the hell out of me because of it. Most games usually have two inputs anyway (run/shoot and jump for platformers/shooters).
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gimymblert
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« Reply #20370 on: March 31, 2015, 09:57:56 AM »

What makes giving all buttons the same weight? nothing.
Uncertainty of what the developer is trying to achieve, that gives the face buttons the same weight. Accessing shooting equally well as jumping can be critical, even when shooting is less frequently used. Sure, you can have a simple game with one or 2 main actions, but you are weakening your own argument by that, since you can control a simple game well with any reasonable input device.

Note that the big button don't offuscate access to other buttons, it's merely a visual emphasis as other button are designed with access in mind two.

It only flies in the face of games who were designed and ported with hardcore complexity in mind, mostly fighting games. Which remain a problem no matter what since shifting from control layout to another is bound to create problem, see mice + keyboard games vs gamepad games vs touchscreen vs flight sticks. Your argument don't work because there is no universal input interface, only convention and baby ducking on them.
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« Reply #20371 on: March 31, 2015, 10:14:56 AM »

yeah but its goddamn unco¡mfortable given the way it plays, since you need to remap a lot to make it work. play mischief makers

exactly. even in zelda it's little awkward not having A and B for the main actions, c buttons for item switching and Z for lock-on. not enough to be game breaking but it's not optimal. a lot of n64 games just don't map well to a PS controller, due to the n64 controller's eccentric layout.

anyway the b button on the gamecube controller is freaking uncomfortable to press, so is the flimsy Z button, so are the shoulder buttons come to think of it. the n64 has an entire section of the controller that is almost completely useless outside of 1 or 2 games but it's comfortable to hold and the buttons feel right.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 10:23:49 AM by Silbereisen » Logged
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« Reply #20372 on: March 31, 2015, 10:17:05 AM »

btw: https://youtube.com/watch?v=gXmj2yJNUmQ
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J-Snake
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« Reply #20373 on: March 31, 2015, 10:45:51 AM »

It only flies in the face of games who were designed and ported with hardcore complexity in mind, mostly fighting games. Which remain a problem no matter what since shifting from control layout to another is bound to create problem, see mice + keyboard games vs gamepad games vs touchscreen vs flight sticks. Your argument don't work because there is no universal input interface, only convention and baby ducking on them.
The sanity of the snes controller is suited well for fighters and any other game in the realm of 6 button plus digipad requirement. Following the scale upwards, a somewhat more ergonomically optimized playstation controller would do it better for fighters and any other console game than the game cube controller. It's only for the better to keep face buttons close together and have a good grip on shoulder buttons.
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« Reply #20374 on: March 31, 2015, 11:05:32 AM »

The best (traditional) fighting pad is the saturn's. Nothing tops that, no more cramp for flip button and fuck the L flip. Thank you
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« Reply #20375 on: March 31, 2015, 11:39:52 AM »

As long as something allows you to combine shoulder input with face button input at the same time, the point stands. Since controllers already head towards that direction, my proposal for further improvement would be a 2-in-one shoulder button on each side (just imagine the long lb or rb of the xbox360 controller to be cut in half in the middle, doubling the amount of shoulder buttons you can natively press at once), but it possibly starts to enter the nerdy side of things.
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« Reply #20376 on: March 31, 2015, 11:54:03 AM »

Shoulder sucks Tongue nobody need them you have a 6 button lay out perfectly usable and a great Dpad. I can access all 6 buttons by putting my thumb accross them.

In fact proper use of motion control like in no more heroes is better, it use angle as threshold.
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« Reply #20377 on: March 31, 2015, 12:17:07 PM »

I actually have grown to like shoulder buttonr for first and third person shooters. Vanquish comes to mind
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J-Snake
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« Reply #20378 on: March 31, 2015, 12:30:47 PM »

Shoulder sucks Tongue nobody need them you have a 6 button lay out perfectly usable and a great Dpad. I can access all 6 buttons by putting my thumb accross them.
But how many of them can you practically combine at once? Without combination you are stuck to games with little dynamic interactivity. Think about keeping the jump, shooting and activating a shield at the same time in a potential platformer, for example.
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« Reply #20379 on: March 31, 2015, 01:59:41 PM »

Look at modern shooter, most button are overloaded and you do very little in the game and interaction are always the same, look at mario 3D world, you have more interaction potential per second than an entire level of a modern shooter with only 2 buttons. Heck even trap them bust modern shooter. Its not the problem. Iknow it's not the question but it's a rant to be made Well, hello there!

But the way I do it with buttons is very simple, I get any combination by twisting my thumb around it's own axis. I don't even lift it, I just slightly slide it around by very little, it sit on the middle of all buttons at the same time. Seriously I freak out when I see player lifting their fingers to go from buttons to buttons!
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