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[Dacke]

recognizing common fallacies is one of the most powerful reasoning tools we have and one of the best protections against rhetorical tricks  

[s0]

it's also one of the most powerful thought killers when presented as an argument on its own. imo pointing out a logical fallacy without any other sort of rebuttal is (in MOST cases) just one step above pointing out spelling errors or responding with memes/buzzwords in the ranking of shitty pseudo-arguments.

theres nothing wrong with pointing out fallacies per se, but it's too often used as a cheap way to "score points" in internet debates while ignoring the crux of the argument the other person is making. just because someone's argument is poorly constructed, doesn't mean their point is invalid.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy

[Dacke]

fair point

[Pfotegeist]

The original assumed statement "pc is better than consoles" is a many to many comparison, supposedly (see reflection). I could replace the original statement with any one console of any brand and any pc at any price. It's impossible to test how truthful the statement is. The statement is most likely false, the converse is also false by the same logic.

To be more logical you'd ask a question "is any pc better than any console?", this results in an obvious no. You'd then revise this to "is a similar priced pc... etc" and you'd have to consider your game options become limited, the companies are always changing, the platforms are imperfect, the question is illogical, there's no answer, resulting in mu.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_%28negative%29#.22Unasking.22_the_question


reflection, it's grammar bait anyway
The assumption made is pc is falsely stated singular or consoles are falsely stated plural. If this is not incorrect, then we do have a quantitative statement.

One pc is arithmetically insufficient against many combinations of consoles. One is less than any number greater than one. This would mean the converse of the original statement is true. I could sell a fraction of those consoles and buy a pc.

[Schoq]

also everyone on the internet thinks ad hominem means "I win the argument because you were rude to me"

[Torchkas]

http://en.arguman.org/pc-is-better-than-consoles this is a thing

I don't like the concept of this website

[s0]

it's as dumb as reddit, but get this, it's harder to read!

also the internet has really made me hate the word "objective"

EDIT: and also the word "biased"

[Dacke]

I'm actually really attracted by the concept, it behaves just like I like to mentally structure arguments. Except that I can never keep it all in my head.

It's just that... on that page random Internet commentators make up the conversation, rather than a group of people who actually want to figure something out. So obviously it all turns to shit.

[ProgramGamer]

The internet, ruining everything since dial-up.

[s0]

where's that neogaf thread where someone dug up old gaming discussions from usenet and it was the exact same shit as gaming forums today

[gimymblert]

that's good moment to bring up that teh search of the forum is broken and need fixing, I heavily use it and now I can't go mch far, it miss obvious hit and also multi page results don't show up as soon as you click above 1

[ProgramGamer]

You need to go through your archives?

[SirNiko]

A big problem with logical debate is that some people who employ it don't understand that logical debate and persuasive speaking are very nearly completely different things with different strategies for success.

Once you reach the point that you're arguing over whether your insult is an ad hominem or not it doesn't matter that you're right because you've already failed to accomplish anything but annoy others so please stop.

multi page results don't show up as soon as you click above 1

I'm glad to read this because I thought this was just me being obtuse on how to operate the search.

Or maybe that's still true but now I'm joined by Gimmy in my ineptitude.

Both are better than my previous situation.

[Dacke]

The search problem is a known issue, the admins are aware of it.

[ProgramGamer]

In the same way that United States officials are aware of gun violence and global warfare?

[JWK5]

Like solving gun violence by shooting at everyone who is holding a gun and solving global warfare by starting wars with those suspected of wanting to start wars before they can start wars?

[gimymblert]

A big problem with logical debate is that some people who employ it don't understand that logical debate and persuasive speaking are very nearly completely different things with different strategies for success.

Once you reach the point that you're arguing over whether your insult is an ad hominem or not it doesn't matter that you're right because you've already failed to accomplish anything but annoy others so please stop.

multi page results don't show up as soon as you click above 1

I'm glad to read this because I thought this was just me being obtuse on how to operate the search.

Or maybe that's still true but now I'm joined by Gimmy in my ineptitude.

Both are better than my previous situation.

I have been using it since day one, so I can attest of a change of behavior.

fortunately there is research that found that people who try to neatly organize folder are less efficient that those who use sreach to sort things. + I have a procedural memory where I navigate with "landmark" that makes it more efficient to me. Especially since given a 5 scales QI I took when I visited a psy long ago, I have 2 of them significantly below average: ie working memory and speed of data processing. I can of win back with analysis power, but it's bog down into making it up for my deficiency.

If you want to set me up for failure, give me random data and process that resist generalization and I'll burn (damn you my current project). I generally greedily over generalized to memorized and then correct mistake in instance of memory by checking coherence of data using generalized rules. That makes me fit for procedural generation.

[s0]

A big problem with logical debate is that some people who employ it don't understand that logical debate and persuasive speaking are very nearly completely different things with different strategies for success.

Once you reach the point that you're arguing over whether your insult is an ad hominem or not it doesn't matter that you're right because you've already failed to accomplish anything but annoy others so please stop.

yep

fortunately there is research that found that people who try to neatly organize folder are less efficient that those who use sreach to sort things. + I have a procedural memory where I navigate with "landmark" that makes it more efficient to me. Especially since given a 5 scales QI I took when I visited a psy long ago, I have 2 of them significantly below average: ie working memory and speed of data processing. I can of win back with analysis power, but it's bog down into making it up for my deficiency.

If you want to set me up for failure, give me random data and process that resist generalization and I'll burn (damn you my current project). I generally greedily over generalized to memorized and then correct mistake in instance of memory by checking coherence of data using generalized rules. That makes me fit for procedural generation.

some people think in images, some think in words and some think in roguelike dungeons.

[ProgramGamer]

I think in both images and word depending on the task, but thinking in roguelike dungeons is fairly foreign to me. I also have weak working memory and data processing speed, like Jimym.

[Dacke]

My cursory understanding of this is that working memory is the limiting factor for most people when doing IQ tests and similar tasks. But I haven't looked at the actual research, so take it with a grain of salt.