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[Zack Bell]

I don't see anything wrong about it. In fact if your game's mechanics are fun being the game very hard is cool.

That's the key here. Difficulty needs to be justified by mechanics imo. A bad hard game is worse than a bad easy game.

Not supposed to be a dig at Zack's game (I haven't even played it), just a general observation.

In other words, it shouldn't be hard because the controls suck or because the game is unfair? If it's difficult, it should be difficult because it is made in a way that requires skill and/or has a learning curve.

edit: that was supposed to sound more like a question, haha 

[Manuel Magalhães]

@Zack Interesting, combat and movement was Spelunky's weakest case, so a similar game that's more combat-centric has potential to be quite a hit.

@C.A. Sinclair The problem with Super Meat Boy was exactly trying to be hard but in the wrong way. Meat Boy's inertia was unpleasant to control, and the levels were too small. N+ is one of my favorite games and there the levels were pretty small too, but the controls are perfect and while Super Meat Boy's level design is more about timing N+'s level design was more about precision, which adds a lot of depth to the levels.

Edit:@Jack A game with bad controls is unfair. A hard bad game is worst that a easy bad game because the former is much more frustrating.
As for your second question the difficulty should be made in a progressive way (the least difficult level to the most for example), regardless of skill.

[SirNiko]

I thought the small levels were the point of super meat boy?

You had plenty of time to practice and get comfortable with a particular trap before you passed it. If you made the game again with much longer levels, and say, gave Meat Boy a few hits before he died it would be a completely different game.

Meat Boy's inertia was difficult to control at first, but once you got the hang of it you could do some pretty sweet acrobatics. While it could probably be improved, I don't feel like it was bad.

SMB was a hard platformer but it went out of its way to make it hard in a comfortable and fair way.

[C.A. Sinner]

super meat boy had a lot of trial and error, "repeat this 500 times in a row until you get that one button press exactly right" stuff. imo repetitive trial and error gameplay is cheap and games shouldn't rely on it. making a game unfair and then trying to reduce frustration by using crutches like short levels and checkpoints is a bit of an ass-backwards way to approach difficulty.

compare that to demon's souls and dark souls (come on you KNEW i was gonna bring that up). those games are hard and about as "frustrating" as SMB but have very few "checkpoints."" they don't need them because they don't rely on trial and error for difficulty (for the most part).

but anyway, i don't like the mentality of designing a game AROUND difficulty. i think instead of trying to make an "easy game" or a "hard game," you should just let the level of difficulty emerge "naturally" from your design.

just my 2 cents. i don't wanna portray myself as kind of "game design guru" or w/e here.

[Zack Bell]

But...I love SMB...

[KM]

Sinclair: Did you 100% SMB?

[Rm88~]

Guys, I need some PS3 recommendations (retail or PSN). My PS3 library is lacking in comparison with my other consoles right now. The thing is, shooters and cinematic games are out of the question. I love fighters, platformers and some RPGs. I love stuff like 3D Dot Game Heroes, Demon's Souls (will get Dark Souls soon), Tekken 6, Spelunker HD.

I was thingking about trying the first White Knight Chronicles even if it's apparently somewhat flawed. Explodemon from PSN looks fun. KOF XIII is getting released soon.

[C.A. Sinner]

White Knight Chronicles isn't very good and I'm saying that as a huge Level-5 fanboy.

Anyway, a couple of games I think you could potentially like:
Valkyria Chronicles
Disgaea 3
Yakuza 3 (haven't played 4)
Catherine
Majin and the Forsaken Kingdom
Nier
Bayonetta

[SirNiko]

I'd toss in the Ratchet and Clank games (Tools of Destruction and Crack in Time). They're fun platformer shooters.

Also consider Darksiders. It's about halfway between Legend of Zelda and God of War, and is pretty fun.

INFamous is a platformer with a GTA style open world with lots of missions. The platforming is pretty fun, though, and there's a slight RPGish feel to developing your character, and slowly reclaiming / repairing the city.

I still buy more PS2 games than PS3 games, though.

[Gimym TILBERT]

1337% of pi = 42.00. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

[C.D Buckmaster]

Heh, my friend showed me that a while ago, blew my mind.

I remember I wrote down "Phwoar" in my notebook during a lecture when they showed how e^{i * pi} = -1

[Ashking]

1337% of pi = 42.00. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

Whoa.
NUMBERS SURE ARE WEIRD.

[Belimoth]

Guys, I need some PS3 recommendations (retail or PSN). My PS3 library is lacking in comparison with my other consoles right now. The thing is, shooters and cinematic games are out of the question. I love fighters, platformers and some RPGs. I love stuff like 3D Dot Game Heroes, Demon's Souls (will get Dark Souls soon), Tekken 6, Spelunker HD.

I was thingking about trying the first White Knight Chronicles even if it's apparently somewhat flawed. Explodemon from PSN looks fun. KOF XIII is getting released soon.

Lair is the best PS3 game ever.

[Manuel Magalhães]

Don't listen to him, Haze is the shit.

[Paul Eres]

the best ps3 gam is probably a ps1 gam or a ps2 gam