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1028933 Posts in 41333 Topics- by 32935 Members - Latest Member: Earthling

August 01, 2014, 02:29:17 PM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralFight Thread Pollution! Post here if it's not worth a new thread!!!
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Author Topic: Fight Thread Pollution! Post here if it's not worth a new thread!!!  (Read 1315439 times)
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« Reply #15240 on: May 03, 2013, 12:45:19 PM »

When was the last you were 100% in agreement with some political people?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
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« Reply #15241 on: May 03, 2013, 12:48:34 PM »

When was the last you were 100% in agreement with some political people?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOuumGX-6uc
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« Reply #15242 on: May 03, 2013, 01:33:52 PM »

I meant working on their free time to produce more content for Kickstarter.
They are 9 people after all, they could have produced something more than a short track with average models...

I also saw their new video and it had nothing of the(what I now believe) are post processing video editing effects in the first video.

Also, a lot of people made games in their free time while having a real job, I don't think their workplace is so much more demanding than other normal workplaces.
I also don't think the game industry is such a hellish demanding place that you like to portray, sure there is a bit of crunch time but for MOST places it's nothing too crazy.
And I know people who worked at big game studios.

They also didn't specify what they were doing at all at those mega companies, it might have been very small parts, they might have been fired for being incompetent.
They didn't show their work at those companies, so you can't tell what they did there.

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« Reply #15243 on: May 03, 2013, 01:41:11 PM »

I also don't think the game industry is such a hellish demanding place that you like to portray

You're welcome to live in whatever kind of fantasy world you prefer.

They also didn't specify what they were doing at all at those mega companies, it might have been very small parts, they might have been fired for being incompetent.
They didn't show their work at those companies, so you can't tell what they did there.

They did however put their names up, so if you care so much about it you can check them out on Mobygames or wherever.
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« Reply #15244 on: May 03, 2013, 02:16:46 PM »

Well, I know a guy who worked on fable 2\3 and mass effect and he has very good and respectful work environment. He is not a "crunch time junkie".

Almost every consumer product based company will have crunch time... yea crunch time is not very good for the long run, but in MOST cases it's short and not too crazy.
I think you hear some excpetional stories and think the entuire industry is like that.
It's kind of like how people see a few succesful indie games like Minecraft and etc and think making money from indie games is very easy.

Also, what is a game jam or LD if not crunch time? Why are you not against that?

I looked up their names on moby games. Most of them have only one game at their resume, most of the games are before 2011, some even only from 2009.
They all seem like junior developers who lost their jobs... but that's just a guess.

Edit: You also didn't respond to why their second video look way simpler and plain compared to the first video.
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« Reply #15245 on: May 03, 2013, 02:28:54 PM »

Also, what is a game jam or LD if not crunch time? Why are you not against that?

No one loses their income if they decide to not enter or to drop out of LD.
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« Reply #15246 on: May 03, 2013, 02:32:18 PM »

Also, labour laws don't cover your free time. In fact, the entire point of having them is so you have free time to begin with.
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« Reply #15247 on: May 03, 2013, 02:37:15 PM »

There was a whole thread recently about industry crunch time, go read that.

http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=32856.0
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« Reply #15248 on: May 03, 2013, 02:47:59 PM »

It's just a promotion ad for Nine Dots with no real evidence of how bad those companies are, making wild speculations about how the fact that most workers have less than 3 years of experience and are not married proves they all work crunch time.
In other words, BS.

Edit: The question is, is the cause for being only 5 years in the industry is because of crunch time or because most programmers suck and are not good enough to develop an AAA game?
I doubt there are many companies that don't have a certain amount of crunch time and pressure.
So what do all these programmers do after they stop working at the game industry? Do they find the "miracle company" that have a lot of money and don't have any crunch time?

On the contrary, I think work environment is a lot more suckier when you have a profession that is in less demand.

Every work environment might have an asshole boss and clueless management. It's not something unheard of, it is actually quite common that workplaces are filled with asshole, greedy and stupid people.
But there are some workplaces that actually have nice and good people, and those work places tend to accept people who are themselves nice and good at their profession.
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« Reply #15249 on: May 03, 2013, 03:28:15 PM »

You've gone completely off the rails at this point.  If you're so convinced the Road Rash thing is a scam, why not alert Kickstarter about it?  Oh that's right, because all you really want to do is rant and rave.
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« Reply #15250 on: May 03, 2013, 03:36:31 PM »

It's more on the grey area...
You don't buy a product, you pay for someone to complete some game which does not exist yet.
No one knows how the game will be yet.
What I complain is how they hype the supporters by showing a video which is a cut scene with post video editing and claim this is gameplay.
If they would have been more honest I wouldn't mind. I just don't like how they are over promising and inflate their value like good politicians while other Kickstarter which have been more honest and showed real content and effort will not get funded because they didn't create a video cut scene of non existing engine\game\prototype
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« Reply #15251 on: May 03, 2013, 04:50:53 PM »

If they would have been more honest I wouldn't mind. I just don't like how they are over promising and inflate their value like good politicians while other Kickstarter which have been more honest and showed real content and effort will not get funded because they didn't create a video cut scene of non existing engine\game\prototype


They marketed themselves successfully before having a core engine down. This is new to kickstarter how?
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« Reply #15252 on: May 04, 2013, 12:41:14 AM »

I didn't say this is new, but just because other did this before doesn't make it right.
I am just getting annoyed by the absurdity of this.
This is even worse than what game industry companies do.
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« Reply #15253 on: May 04, 2013, 12:47:21 AM »

You've gone completely off the rails at this point.

Exactly. The short version is that asking for money to make a project which doesn't exist yet IS WHAT KICKSTARTER IS ACTUALLY FOR. It's the whole entire point! 99% of projects on KS will show you a glossy mockup of what their product will look like when it's finished because the whole reason they're on KS is because they aren't finished yet. If you don't like it, ignore Kickstarter entirely.

The ones who don't do the glossy mockup and just show you the work-in-progress generally fail to get funded because they are competing for people's attention against people who do. Therefore, if you want to succeed on KS, you do a glossy mockup. It's just human nature, and if you don't like that top yourself or join a hippy commune, you're not escaping from it any other way.

Almost every consumer product based company will have crunch time... yea crunch time is not very good for the long run, but in MOST cases it's short and not too crazy.
I think you hear some excpetional stories and think the entuire industry is like that.

If you think that the games industry is all roses and rainbows, then by all means go and get a job programming for a games company. Come back in a year and tell us about your awesome salary and the thirty-five hour weeks and the respect with which you were treated. Sure, there are companies that are like that, but from everything I see and hear they're in the minority... and most of them are run by arseholes who have figured out that there is a ready supply of idiot-savant teenagers and twenty-somethings who think that working in games is SO COOL and will happily work like slaves just so they can say they have a job at <insert well known company> working on <insert well known game>.

I know a few people personally who have been working fifty-hour weeks since the beginning of the year for shitty pay and are now having their hours upped. I think that pretty much everyone I've known, online and face-to-face, who has got into the triple-A games industry periodically drops off the face of the planet for months on end when a game is 'near' to release.

I've worked in the proper software industry in the UK for about eleven years - the one that makes business software, respects national labour laws, pays decently and is run by businessmen and not overgrown man-children - and we have crunch time too. It's that period that lasts a couple of weeks before a major release where you sometimes have to work through half your lunch-break and stay an hour or two later after work. That messes up my game-making schedule, makes it harder for me to dedicate a couple of hours in the evening to make games, because I'm an average human being who only works solidly for forty-odd hours a week, and I like to have some time to relax. Demanding anything else of the people who make games for you is infantile.

Also, what is a game jam or LD if not crunch time? Why are you not against that?

If you seriously can't tell the difference between "voluntary activity for fun" and "lose your job and your ability to feed yourself and live under a roof if you don't do this", then sorry, but you're too stupid to bother communicating with.

Not to mention the minor difference that when a lone individual or a small group of friends finishes crunch time they get the warm glow of satisfaction and - if they're a commercial indie dev team - paid for their work; when a games industry professional finishes crunch time, half the time they get fired! Certainly they never see a cut of the profits or any other reward proportional to their hard work.

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« Reply #15254 on: May 04, 2013, 01:30:58 AM »

Also, what is a game jam or LD if not crunch time? Why are you not against that?
what
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