Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1047975 Posts in 42485 Topics- by 34359 Members - Latest Member: MariaMa

October 01, 2014, 02:19:32 PM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralFight Thread Pollution! Post here if it's not worth a new thread!!!
Pages: 1 ... 761 762 [763] 764 765 ... 949
Print
Author Topic: Fight Thread Pollution! Post here if it's not worth a new thread!!!  (Read 1369172 times)
PompiPompi
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #15240 on: May 03, 2013, 03:36:31 PM »

It's more on the grey area...
You don't buy a product, you pay for someone to complete some game which does not exist yet.
No one knows how the game will be yet.
What I complain is how they hype the supporters by showing a video which is a cut scene with post video editing and claim this is gameplay.
If they would have been more honest I wouldn't mind. I just don't like how they are over promising and inflate their value like good politicians while other Kickstarter which have been more honest and showed real content and effort will not get funded because they didn't create a video cut scene of non existing engine\game\prototype
Logged

Master of all trades.
ClayB
Guest
« Reply #15241 on: May 03, 2013, 04:50:53 PM »

If they would have been more honest I wouldn't mind. I just don't like how they are over promising and inflate their value like good politicians while other Kickstarter which have been more honest and showed real content and effort will not get funded because they didn't create a video cut scene of non existing engine\game\prototype


They marketed themselves successfully before having a core engine down. This is new to kickstarter how?
Logged
PompiPompi
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #15242 on: May 04, 2013, 12:41:14 AM »

I didn't say this is new, but just because other did this before doesn't make it right.
I am just getting annoyed by the absurdity of this.
This is even worse than what game industry companies do.
Logged

Master of all trades.
Sar
Level 3
***


Likes Violins


View Profile WWW
« Reply #15243 on: May 04, 2013, 12:47:21 AM »

You've gone completely off the rails at this point.

Exactly. The short version is that asking for money to make a project which doesn't exist yet IS WHAT KICKSTARTER IS ACTUALLY FOR. It's the whole entire point! 99% of projects on KS will show you a glossy mockup of what their product will look like when it's finished because the whole reason they're on KS is because they aren't finished yet. If you don't like it, ignore Kickstarter entirely.

The ones who don't do the glossy mockup and just show you the work-in-progress generally fail to get funded because they are competing for people's attention against people who do. Therefore, if you want to succeed on KS, you do a glossy mockup. It's just human nature, and if you don't like that top yourself or join a hippy commune, you're not escaping from it any other way.

Almost every consumer product based company will have crunch time... yea crunch time is not very good for the long run, but in MOST cases it's short and not too crazy.
I think you hear some excpetional stories and think the entuire industry is like that.

If you think that the games industry is all roses and rainbows, then by all means go and get a job programming for a games company. Come back in a year and tell us about your awesome salary and the thirty-five hour weeks and the respect with which you were treated. Sure, there are companies that are like that, but from everything I see and hear they're in the minority... and most of them are run by arseholes who have figured out that there is a ready supply of idiot-savant teenagers and twenty-somethings who think that working in games is SO COOL and will happily work like slaves just so they can say they have a job at <insert well known company> working on <insert well known game>.

I know a few people personally who have been working fifty-hour weeks since the beginning of the year for shitty pay and are now having their hours upped. I think that pretty much everyone I've known, online and face-to-face, who has got into the triple-A games industry periodically drops off the face of the planet for months on end when a game is 'near' to release.

I've worked in the proper software industry in the UK for about eleven years - the one that makes business software, respects national labour laws, pays decently and is run by businessmen and not overgrown man-children - and we have crunch time too. It's that period that lasts a couple of weeks before a major release where you sometimes have to work through half your lunch-break and stay an hour or two later after work. That messes up my game-making schedule, makes it harder for me to dedicate a couple of hours in the evening to make games, because I'm an average human being who only works solidly for forty-odd hours a week, and I like to have some time to relax. Demanding anything else of the people who make games for you is infantile.

Also, what is a game jam or LD if not crunch time? Why are you not against that?

If you seriously can't tell the difference between "voluntary activity for fun" and "lose your job and your ability to feed yourself and live under a roof if you don't do this", then sorry, but you're too stupid to bother communicating with.

Not to mention the minor difference that when a lone individual or a small group of friends finishes crunch time they get the warm glow of satisfaction and - if they're a commercial indie dev team - paid for their work; when a games industry professional finishes crunch time, half the time they get fired! Certainly they never see a cut of the profits or any other reward proportional to their hard work.

Logged

Currently working on: Chronicle of Mars
Previous Projects: [Käfer|Tristan and Iseult(TIGS)]
Ashkin
Level 10
*****


king of kings


View Profile
« Reply #15244 on: May 04, 2013, 01:30:58 AM »

Also, what is a game jam or LD if not crunch time? Why are you not against that?
what
Logged
PompiPompi
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #15245 on: May 04, 2013, 07:47:38 AM »

I don't think you know too many companies inside out to know what it's like for the entire game industry or for the entire software market.
You just know a few friends and have a bit of personal experience so you project that to the entire game industry.
The horrors of workplaces exist in almost every industry, including business software. I would assume. There are horrible people everywhere, not just in game companies.
To think that the game industry is somehow different than other software companies is silly.
Does the game industry attract more horrible managers than in other places? Are the share holders more cold and evil in the game industry than in other industries?

Did I say that the game industry is all roses? Are you putting words into my mouth? Thanks...

You have shown no substantial evidence that the game industry is any different than other industries.
My guess is that the more your skills are in demand, the better your work conditions are. If you are a waitress, you are more likely to be treated like shit because you are replaceable.
Most software developers are also replaceable because they don't have any special knowledge.

I guess you don't really know that most working places are filled with greedy asshole that can't care even a bit for their workers well being... this is not special to the game industry. It's the human nature.
Being an asshole is in our genes.

That is why nice work places are the exception, but that is true to any industry not just the game industry.
I would say that where your skills are in less demand you are more open to exploitation because you are easily replaceable.

However, this is mostly from my personal experience, I really don't have evidence this is true since I didn't work in hundreds of companies, only a few.
Logged

Master of all trades.
PompiPompi
Level 10
*****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #15246 on: May 04, 2013, 07:55:14 AM »

In Kickstarter people make claims, they set goals. The people who spend their money on these campaigns do so because they BELIEVE these people can achieve those goals.
If someone over-promise or is not competent enough to achieve his goals and promises, then he scams the supporters.
Having a prototype is a good way to show you can achieve those goals.
Having an animated video is only good to show a concept abut is not a good way to show you can deliver.
People saying they worked at game companies although it is not clear for how long and what they did there, are trying to make people believe they can deliver.

This is why I wait for all these project to under deliver and have many people disappointed by the distance between the goals and promises and reality.

Just because someone agree to pay you it doesn't mean that you are giving him what he thought he is paying for.
Logged

Master of all trades.
Gimym JIMBERT
Level 10
*****


NOTGAMER ludophile


View Profile Email
« Reply #15247 on: May 04, 2013, 07:56:59 AM »

David cage: Video games need to grow up and stop making super hero game ...
Beyond two souls: a game about a girl with superpower
Logged


ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss)
ClayB
Guest
« Reply #15248 on: May 04, 2013, 08:22:09 AM »

Heavy Rain has one of the silliest storylines in a game ever.
Logged
Udderdude
Level 10
*****


464371439


View Profile WWW
« Reply #15249 on: May 04, 2013, 08:29:40 AM »

How 2 get gud story in vidyagaem

Step 1 : Hire a writer.  Like, an actual one.  Who writes books.
Step 2 : Don't shoehorn the story into a genre that it can't support or makes it boring/uninteresting (goes for both the story and game)
Step 3 : ? ? ?
Step 4 : Realize the guys at http://www.ifarchive.org/ have probably already done the story you did, only 10 times better.
Step 5 : Cry into a bowl of your own half-eaten feces.

Logged

Gimym JIMBERT
Level 10
*****


NOTGAMER ludophile


View Profile Email
« Reply #15250 on: May 04, 2013, 08:32:16 AM »

yeah people should consider IF way more seriously when they are talking about "game" story, even twine game are ahead. David cage, big budget twine game.
Logged


ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss)
C.A. Silbereisen
Schlagerstar
Global Moderator
Level 10
******


eurovision winner 2014


View Profile
« Reply #15251 on: May 04, 2013, 08:54:09 AM »

it'd be cool if interactive fiction got a mainstream revival similar to the one roguelikes are undergoing atm.
Logged

Udderdude
Level 10
*****


464371439


View Profile WWW
« Reply #15252 on: May 04, 2013, 08:56:04 AM »

Harry Potter: The Interactive Fiction could easily sell 100 billion copies or so.
Logged

ClayB
Guest
« Reply #15253 on: May 04, 2013, 08:56:36 AM »

I wish we were past the interactive game story stuff like heavy rain. I don't care if the story branches out in a million ways if every story branch is stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid. Just tell a good story that makes sense for the gameplay.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 10:44:17 AM by ClayB » Logged
Gimym JIMBERT
Level 10
*****


NOTGAMER ludophile


View Profile Email
« Reply #15254 on: May 04, 2013, 08:59:37 AM »

Not really sure if roguelike are getting "mainstream" but at least more designer are paying attention to IF but that's the effect of the surge of "stars" like Emily Short, much like VN get some attention because of Christine love.

Right now we got versu and twine as spiritual descendant.

@ClayB
That's as stupid as saying brown shooter Tongue
Logged


ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss)
Udderdude
Level 10
*****


464371439


View Profile WWW
« Reply #15255 on: May 04, 2013, 09:00:59 AM »

The brown note.
Logged

C.A. Silbereisen
Schlagerstar
Global Moderator
Level 10
******


eurovision winner 2014


View Profile
« Reply #15256 on: May 04, 2013, 09:04:44 AM »

Not really sure if roguelike are getting "mainstream"
welp "indie mainstream" i guess. like idk, going from a tiny niche genre dismissed as "archaic" by most ppl to a... uhm... slightly bigger niche genre lol.

Quote
I wish we were past the interactive game story stuff like heavy rain. I don't care if the story branches out in a million way if every story branch is stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid.
i just find the irony of being all artsy fartsy about ur games and then making something thats slightly above a CSI episode amusing.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 10:25:49 AM by C.A. Sinner » Logged

Bandages
Guest
« Reply #15257 on: May 04, 2013, 09:36:04 AM »

I woke up and someone was using the shower, no biggie. They finished, so I started to mosey over and whoop someone else swooped in.

They've been in there for twenty fucking minutes so far.

I live with 4 guys.

Who in the fuck takes a 20 minute shower???

Angry

e: Dan takes a 20 minute shower.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 09:41:23 AM by Castle » Logged
Gimym JIMBERT
Level 10
*****


NOTGAMER ludophile


View Profile Email
« Reply #15258 on: May 04, 2013, 10:18:51 AM »

Not really sure if roguelike are getting "mainstream"
welp "indie mainstream" i guess. like idk, going from a tiny niche genre dismissed as "archaic" by most ppl to a... uhm... slightly bigger niche genre lol.

Quote
I wish we were past the interactive game story stuff like heavy rain. I don't care if the story branches out in a million way if every story branch is stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid.
i just find irony of being all artsy fartsy about ur games and then making something thats slightly above a CSI episode amusing.

That is because the threshold is low, very very low, that's telling. I'm yeah, I can argue how a saint seya ep. is more complex that most game narrative (even with the awfully and sadly bad english dubs).
Logged


ILLOGICAL, random guy on internet, do not trust (lelebĉcülo dum borobürükiss)
s_l_m
Level 8
***


Open to collabs


View Profile Email
« Reply #15259 on: May 04, 2013, 10:59:28 AM »

I don't think that writing in video games is just across the board terrible. I think you are looking at a specific style of story ("artsy", usually involves somebody delivering introspective monologues while walking through a city with overcast weather, you know the type). Then you point to that style and say "look, games do this so much worse than other mediums, therefore game writing sucks". I think that games have an extremely strong history with some types of story, especially comedic writing (recently deceased LucasArts is the elephant in the room here, but there are others). Just because games don't have as strong of a tradition of what the rest of the world has deemed to be "serious writing" doesn't mean it is a medium completely devoid of story tellers. It's like if somebody was to point to Disney and say they can't tell stories because they use funny animals to tell them.

Also, completely destroying what I just said. The Longest Journey series can (imo) do the "serious" style just as good as most movies, and I have never played the Syberia series but I hear it is similar. And there are lots of RPG's that have OK stories too
Logged

I enjoy video games @JasonBrouwers
The most recent game I made was: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/634128
Pages: 1 ... 761 762 [763] 764 765 ... 949
Print
Jump to:  

Theme orange-lt created by panic