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December 29, 2014, 12:51:26 PM
TIGSource ForumsFeedbackPlaytestingVariance (oh lawdy, my aching head)
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Nandrew
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« on: May 24, 2009, 10:01:12 AM »

Variance!
A pretentious prototype - politely pleading for your playthrough.





Variance is a humble little gravity-based, side-on proto-game-thing which has you controlling a scurrying little avatar who needs to push around a bunch of blocks to clear a way to each level's exit. Hey, it's Sokoban with perks!

The main factor which makes the side-on Sokoban paradigm feasible is the presence of a multitude of different "gravity blocks" which exert their own directional force on surrounding environs. Go up, down, left, right and wonkways while carefully considering how your actions affect the blocks, fields and obstacles that are placed in your path.

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LONG AND INVOLVED FEEDBACK CRITERIA:

Okay, now that the silly briefing stuff is over, kindly divert your attention to the feedback part. Because I'm nice (and really really really want your feedback), I'm going to point you to particular areas of the game which you can comment on and make decisions about. Cos while you're free to comment on the rough edges (of which there are approximately one billion), there's certain sorts of feedback which I'll cherish above others. Consider the following as you play:

- I have a tendency to make mercilessly difficult puzzles. Several playtesters have already revealed this. Like, the most tricky ones that I've made in this proto represent me at about a 6. You totally don't want me to crank it up to 10. So give me an indication of your game's progression: does it go too fast? Too slow? Did you find any levels particularly difficult? Did you give up halfway through, and if so could you give me the level number and why? Did you skip any levels (yeah, you can totally do that)?

- Consider the puzzle features. There's quite a few of them, and I've done my best to explore all of them reasonably well within the 30-odd levels that I've provided here. Are there any particularly STRONG elements that you think should be introduced earlier on in the game?

- More importantly, what would you isolate as the WEAKEST puzzle feature? Don't be shy: if you were the game's designer and some sort of looming manager person forced you to cut out one of the puzzle features, which one would it be and why?

- Bonus points if you decide to be adventurous and hit the "random" button before starting a game! Play through the levels in a wonky order if you want, then note how you would re-order them.

- EXTRA SUPER BONUS POINTS if you decide to go into the game's editor, make a map and send it to me. It's really helpful getting other people's ideas and perspectives on the system, and you can make your ideas most tangibly known in a little offering that I can actually play through. I'd be permanently indebted to you. In fact, you could probably call in for sexual favours.

Hit me with your best shot, TIGsters. We all learn best in times of adversity, and candy-coated "lolfun ^_^" isn't going to improve the game. Though it's still really cool to hear that sorta stuff.

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Oh, and hey, here's the download.

Please press "F1" when you reach the game, or you won't have a cow's clue of how to interact with stuff. And try use "ESC" to leave the app rather than futilely clicking on the close box.

Made in Game Maker, so it's probably going to be rather unsuccessful outside a Windows environment.
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HybridMind
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« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2009, 11:54:20 AM »

Well.. here are one player's data points and observations on the first 24 levels anyway for what they're worth.

Thoughts on Levels:

1,2) easy.. nice introductions
3) first got stuck, then restarted and got it.
4) cool that you intro moving the gravity wells... that was fun
5) hmmm.. this one has stumped me for a while so far... hah!  Nice.. this one took me between 5-10 minutes to solve.  I realize now that when I'm playing in zones where my frame of reference is upside down I am misinterpreting the tile layouts and my normal platformer instincts are off.  It took me awhile to realize that I could make a simple jump that if the gravity frame had been flipped I likely wouldn't have paused at all... very cool.
6) I know this is the first level you have introduced a (probable) enemy on but it still seemed WAY too easy.  I was able to solve it first go without even getting anywhere near him.  Perhaps consider introducing the first enemy where there might be more threat involved?
7) Ok.. seems like you are doing what I recommended in #6 above on level 7.. there is slightly more threat even though the first enemy you encounter is pointlessly trapped by the first block I guess you are being really easy with introducing the concepts though without including potential of any danger.  You may want to consider that people often learn lessons a bit better when they have been burned though so sometimes it is good to design for this potential.  Good case in point is the second enemy... he drops behind you and if you aren't quick with the 'x' control to push the block left and then jump he will get you.  That danger makes that part a lot more fun etc.  I know that you are aware of this stuff and have likely just aimed at an easier arc.
8 ) Ah.. new gadget on level 8.. gravity switch control.  Well, besides the obvious that the graphics make it very hard to determine its function ahead of time trial and error does reveal that anyway.  This puzzle is nice and simple and intros this new gadget fairly well I feel.
9) Fun level.  A nice little further exploration of the gravity switch gadget and how to work with block columns in a changing gravity environment. 
10) Very fun.  I like that I could solve it using platformer timing skill rather than just thinking.  I like the blend so far of puzzle solving and platformer skills needed.  This level starts me looking forward to some more advanced levels as these first 10 have been VERY basic and easy so far.  Of course each player will be different... but these almost feel tutorial in nature still.
11) This level introduces more switches and blocks and takes a good combo of puzzle and platformer skills to solve.  Still fairly easy but definitely a little harder than some others so far.
12) I'm not sure if I solved this level as "intended" but I felt that there were likely multiple solutions.  Here it is unclear to me what controls the switching of the pushable gravity wells versus the stationary ones.  It seems that the switch control lines jump when I push the first movable well.  While this is neat it makes me unsure of how the mechanic currently works.  Perhaps it shall be revealed later but at this point I have not grasped how you make the control line decision between.  Also.. there was a crazy blue glow that triggered when I moved the wells near each other at one point.
13) Another enemy level.  It seems like with the 3 levels you've introduced enemies on you err on the said of making them really easy and simplistic.  Each enemy level feels like a bit of a notch down during your already fairly shallow difficulty angle.  Not anything wrong with that but that is how I am perceiving the curve so far. Also.. because I feel that I've been partially 'trapped in tutorial land' for awhile now (almost 50% done the levels) I am hoping for more challenges a lot by this point already and this level is the first let down along that expectation for me.
14) While easy, this level at least is a bit interesting to me in how you can 'trap' the enemy under the block.  Not sure if this is the only solution but it was the first (and only) I tried where I just kept flipping the first gravity switch as I helped the enemy all the way over.  Now that I think about it this is likely the solution you had in mind as the enemy falling into the hole is what will support the block and lead the player to be able to escape.  Nicely done puzzle actually.  It sort of "self solves" which would be my only complaint but still not too bad and it did make me smile to trap the enemy like that with a flip of the second switch.  I did secretly hope my block would squish the guy though but that didn't happen.  That would of course change the puzzle too though.
15) Weird level.  Still not sure what you are trying to indicate with the strange blue glowing dots between zones when a block touches them.  I also had know idea that I could push a block through the exit.  I tried because I couldn't think of anything else to do.  This seems like it will need to be communicated as it confused me anyway.
16) What a wild spinning level.  First time you introduce sideways gravity mechanic.  Seems like maybe that would be good to introduce earlier on as it may make for some slightly more interesting early levels?  This one is still fairly easy to solve but proves quite amusing for a minute or two as I have fun entering an orbit around the middle area.  Having only one pushable block makes the solution a little too easy again as I have been taught by this game so far that almost every object is used and if there is only one object then use it.  Also.. there aren't many options to mess up and push the block somewhere else so this level sort of self solves again once you push the first block.  I'm guessing that it is likely still fun enough in that this level has more of a bias towards the platformer skill set as you try to land in the various areas.
17) Alright.  This was the first level that felt about medium in hardness.  There were a few nice mechanics used as well as the introduction of a new gadget (the teleporter) that made this a lot of fun to solve.  A good 50/50 mix of puzzle solving and platformer twitch skills to get the timing right.  I liked this level a lot.
18) That was a fun little level.  I will say that it is going to drive me CRAZY in the sideways frames of reference if you make me have to use up and down to move left and right.  I would love the option to just use left and right still and have my brain do the directional mapping as I feel that would be far easier for me then to remember to switch key axises.
19) Hmmmm.. this level would be fine if it wasn't for those damn up/down mappings... Wink
20) This level was great.  Took a good bit of puzzle solving and about 6 restarts before I had it.  I was mainly stumped on where to put that last block and had just missed the obvious.  I would class this level as Medium/Hard or Hard even.
21) Haha.. this was an awesome level.  It was really great sense of accomplishment on this one once I figured out what I was supposed to do and how to time it.  I guess that black blocks are blocks that the player can't move?
22) Nice and challenging puzzle.  I wish that there was a better way for you to indicate the hidden switch in the column of blocks though because currently that might be tough to notice for awhile.  There is the subtle hint of the connecting white line but that seems more like a serious case of programmer art or indicating too much of how the mechanic works in a visually simplistic manner.  I know this is still a prototype but I do encourage you to solve the whole 'control line' concept in a visually pleasing manner.  This will also help perhaps with some of the difficulty of this level.  It took me awhile to realize there was a switch hidden in the blocks.  I perceived the extra control line as a glitch for quite awhile.  This level took at least 10 restarts for me to solve and somewhere between 5-10 minutes.  It was a lot of fun once I got the movements down though.
23) Once again.. a nice medium/hard puzzle.  Took me about 3-4 restarts to win this one.
24) This level was my bane.  I almost quit on this level.  I would guess it took me about 30+ restarts to win.  I realized I was missing something obvious and was attacking it from this one angle.  Once I realized how to trap the critter with the block I was OK.  This is definitely a nice hard puzzle. 
25) The gravity enemy introduced on this level is an interesting concept.  I'm not sure why, but something about it lets me down a little in how it reacts.  My best guess is that somehow I find it odd that it is 'an enemy' instead of a 'device'?  That is the feeling I'm getting though on what bothered me.  I like the idea of a gravity well that moves towards the player.  Perhaps I don't like the fact that it kills me if it touches me.  Just seems like a mixed concept... but not 100% sure on that.  Maybe if there were more levels with them on it I wouldn't mind so much.  As far as the level goes, it is fairly easy to solve with the exception of trying not to get killed by the enemy gravity well.  This feels like a Medium level.
26) That was an amusing little level.  A new widget introduced (gravity switch button on pushable block).  Took me about 5+ restarts to solve this one and was a good bit a fun to figure out the right combos and placements.  Medium difficulty.
27) Oh man.. this level was insidious to me.  Took me like 30+ restarts but luckily this one was a lot quicker to 'cycle' then level 24.  I realized I had forgotten the way the gravity switch blocks worked with the control line swapping to nearest gravity well.  Once I realized that I solved it pretty fast.  Before that I was trying to time by jump through the falling gravity enemy corridor and dieing... a lot!  Wink
28) Though this level was fairly easy... I am still a little confused as to how exactly the zones work on this one.  I have little idea about the symbol with the 4 arrows on it.  I was able to work it out and win but I did not get a confident sense of how these items work from this level.
29) I couldn't figure out this level and eventually had to skip.  Tried MANY times.  One positive thing about this level is I finally determined how the new gadgets from level 28 worked.  Those are pretty cool.  It is like 'gravity memory' and a 'gravity clearer'.
30) This was a beautiful level.  Reward of accomplishment is quite high once you figure this one out.  Combines some great puzzle elements.  Hard difficulty.  Took me about 20 restarts but for most of them I learned something new every couple of restarts so it never got too frustrating as I always felt like I was making further progress towards understanding where to put everything.

Well.. I was able to solve 29/30 of the puzzles. 

Random thoughts on game while playing:

1) I love the the tingling sensation my brain gets as I pass through changing gravity zones and feel the mental flipping that occurs in reversing the controls.  It is fun and rewarding to master smoothly moving between zones.  It triggers the sensation I like when a game can begin being 'played like an instrument' and so it is nice that there are hints of that phenomenon going on here and there via the controls/mechanic.

2) It is a great visual and fun mechanic when you move between two opposite gravity zones and are thrown upwards into the one zone from the other.  This effect really reminds me of the acceleration trick from the game Portal and is a nice 2d corollary here.

3) It is really fun to push the gravity wells around as well as flipping gravity switches.  Representing it via the color coded tiles really works well for me too.  So far it has been really fun to play based on this mechanic alone.

4) It seems that you don't use enemies too frequently and I can't decide if that is odd or not.  Like, you asked what feature to cut and I think I'd cut enemies.. EXCEPT that level 24 was so great because of the enemies involved with the puzzle.. so now I'm not sure.  They just feel really under utilized until level 24.

5) I wanted to pull this point out into it's own as I had talked about it in the level observations but I feel it bares repeating.  Please consider making the controls for left/right stay uniform and letting the player remap the directions in their heads instead of making them use the up/down keys in the sideways gravity zones.  I found it mind-numbingly difficult to control the way it is now.  I would hope that people can remap their perspective frame of reference as humans are naturally very good at that kind of thing (many psychological experiments have been done with 'upside down glasses' etc and its amazing how quickly we can remap / switch.  Switching keys though seems somewhat counter-intuitive to me.  Heck.. just give it an option and you can support all types of players I'd guess! Wink
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 06:18:04 AM by HybridMind » Logged

muku
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« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2009, 12:29:32 PM »

Nice game, I just played up to level 24 where I decided to stop for now.

One particular thing that I think could be introduced better are the pushable gravity wells. On level 4, where such a thing first pops up, it took me a while to realize what it does and that the boundaries between the zones shift when I push that box, so it had me stumped for a while. I think if you force the player to push that box for a longer distance by placing it in a 1 tile high corridor in front of him, and/or force him to drop it off a high ledge, it will be immediately much more obvious what is happening because the zones will shift much more dramatically. At least that's my design philosophy: when you introduce a new puzzle element, it should be through a less "puzzly" and more "tutorial-y" level that says to the player in a really obvious way: see, this is what that and that thing does. From the way you introduced many of the other mechanics, I have a feeling that you think similarly, it just didn't get across so clearly in that particular instance.

I fully agree with HybridMind about the moving up/down issue, that just made my head hurt.
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Nandrew
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« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2009, 01:02:44 PM »

First off, a gigantic "thank you" for the blow-by-blow analysis, HybridMind! You've given me a lot to chew on -- particularly WRT feedback on the difficulty curve. I'll try find a way to accelerate the difficulty without isolating players when it comes to introducing new elements (in this regard, you may be a little disappointed with some of the last levels: a few of them have, again, dipped significantly in difficulty!).

I'm tempted to think that if I introduced the red/yellow gravity much earlier, then you would have much more time to get comfortable with the "sideways" control scheme ... but since you and muku have both raised the point, I reckon that it needs a serious look.

On the point of the "block glow" ... I initially threw that in when a block hit a border between two oppositely-directed gravity fields and came to a stop, so that players wouldn't go "what the hey?" when they saw a block flying in mid-air. It seems that you've already deduced that this was a logical behaviour and I suppose the glow is now just confusing.

WRT enemies ... this has been a very tricky point for me. I'm not sure whether I want enemies in this game or not, though I think they'd serve a good function. You've mentioned at several points that you appreciate timing and action-platforming elements in the puzzles, and I originally introduced enemies as that "imperative element" to motivate players and get a little bit of action into the mix. It's quite possible that I've under-utilised them, and if you do think that they still have some potential, I may craft an additional mission pack to explore the player/enemy relationship further.

You've explored a lot of other points, most of which I agree with. I just thought I'd hammer out a reply to the most prevalent ones. Tongue


muku: very good point about the pushable grav, I'll redesign level 4 for a "long drop". On reflection, that DOES make far more sense as a means of introduction. And I'm with you 100% on making the introductory level for an element a "tutorial" stage -- thanks for the feedback on that and the controls!
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HybridMind
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« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2009, 06:17:10 AM »

NOTE: I updated my post above to include my observations on levels 25-30.

Some final thoughts:

I believe you have made levels which seem mainly geared towards helping you define and isolate the various mechanics you are exploring.  This is perfectly acceptable and a great point for a prototype.  It would seem though that with so many gadgets that it would be tough to define a theme across all levels.  Perhaps like some of the later levels you would be better off with how you have made levels the mix and match all your gadgets and mechanics and not even pick a theme.  This of course would mean you still have your tutorial levels but after that you are just building puzzles that you grab from various mechanics in your toolkit versus trying to do a traditional 'gadget arc' from point a to b.  I'm not sure if I'm really getting across what I want too... so I apologize if this is less than helpful.  One point I'm trying to make is that most of these levels felt more like experiments then complete designs.  There were a ton of levels which felt tutorial in nature.  This is probably due to the fact that you have quite a few gadgets and mechanics you are playing with.  This is likely going to make it tougher to not make it feel scattered or unfocused.  Since this may be the case, that is why I'm recommending that maybe you should turn that apparent 'weakness' into a strength by trying to build levels that are challenging in themselves, fall into a tested difficulty arc, and don't follow a real theme between levels. 

I rather enjoyed this game.  I would say you have at least 5 really gem levels there that are just great and mix and match your concepts very well.  I'm definitely interested to see how you polish this up and what graphic style approach you take if you move it out of prototype art stage.

I also did start to get used to the up/down keys in the sideways zones.  I found it odd though that the physics of jumping and the controls seems touchier/sketchier in the up/down mode (sideways zones) so you may want to look into that.  It just seemed tougher to control the lateral movement during a jump and got a little frustrating.

Good luck!
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Nandrew
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« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2009, 07:15:35 AM »

Thanks, HybridMind, this is definitely the sort of stuff I'm looking for!

I appreciate what you have to say about a lot of the levels feeling like "tutorials" because I really am trying to introduce a lot of gadgets in a very short space of time (part of the prototyping effort, I guess Tongue ).

What I'd like to do from here is try to isolate a few of the weaker features, remove them from the game and focus on building more complex and interesting puzzles with some of the "stronger" and more favourable gadgets at my disposal. I am, for example, quite happy to hear that you enjoyed level 30: I'm quite proud of that one, and decided to throw it in as an example of how players could get more cerebral with much fewer puzzle elements.

Another case in point: those levels with the "gravity well" enemy have proven excessively finicky to design, and although I liked the idea on paper, it seems that the implementation has been less than wonderful. I think that will be the first feature to be booted. Tongue

Thanks again for the testing. I'll try release a revised version when I have the time, and I'll also be whipping up some "level packs" and stuff to home in on and explore particular features some more.
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