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[esc]

I'd try selling the Cactus Arcade, isn't it like 20 games? People would pay 5-10 bucks for that I reckon.

[Eclipse]

Is money really the issue here? It's kind of buh that people seem to have immediately jumped to a lack of proper income as the primary cause of this downness. I mean, maybe it is, but I think that it's kinda sad that the best reason people have for feeling...however cactus feels, is money. There can be other reasons, yeah?

it's not about the lack of proper income, it's about the fact he see all of this games thing like a dead end, and he's worrying for his future.
I was not talking about how to be rich or something, but about the fact that i think his games already have the strenght to make a living out of it, he only need to change platform or the way they're presented to people.

It's true that making a game for the fun and sake of it is one thing, and making it as a job is another, even as indie, even working alone. But if on a side it will look like a more serious thing for you, and maybe you will even hate when you need to put it our of the door not polished how you want, the other side of the medal is that you'll be VERY proud of yourself just thinking that your games are not only played by a lot of people, but that your games even provided you your meal

[Melly]

Every man needs a hobby and a job. You do the job for others, and you do the hobby for yourself. Transforming your hobby into your job makes you lose a hobby. You now only do things for others, and you become unhappy.

If you can make money and a living out of your hobby, while still keeping it a hobby, then I guess that would be the perfect life, but the odds of that are too slim to try and depend on.

Always maintain your hobby, and if you think monetizing it would transform it into a job, forget that notion.

[Eclipse]

as game development is an hobby that sucks up all the time you can invest on it, having it as a job is sometimes better than having a sucky job + an hobby that fullfill all your life.

That's my point of view, I enjoy love this job, I know i'm doing stuff for others, but i'm doing what i want the others to receive. Also I feel that having another job and then seeying a lot of people making stuff i'd love to make will just drive me insane.
I want to make games, I want to work all the day making my games, working with guys that have my same passion. I don't want to spend almost all my day on another random thing, we're talking of about 8 hours each day! I'm sure I'd die. I was born to make this shit or die trying.

[Melly]

Then you still have a hobby that pays you, since you're doing it for yourself. I was talking about people that take their beloved hobbies and transform them into their jobs, and now they're only working in what other people want them to work on, like a hobbyist game dev interested in pushing the medium in new directions suddenly having to code breast physics for 10 hours a day with no overtime pay at EA. That's the kind of stuff that destroys your spirit.

[Eclipse]

Then you still have a hobby that pays you, since you're doing it for yourself. I was talking about people that take their beloved hobbies and transform them into their jobs, and now they're only working in what other people want them to work on, like a hobbyist game dev interested in pushing the medium in new directions suddenly having to code breast physics for 10 hours a day with no overtime pay at EA. That's the kind of stuff that destroys your spirit.

it was like that when i was employeed in the last software house i worked for, luckly nowadays you can also try the indie way. I still don't know if it will pay for me, as is a big risk i'm taking, but not trying is wrong, i don't want to think back with regret when i'll be 30-35 or when i'll have a family

[Ivan]

I don't think it has to be as extreme as being a monkey at EA. Even making a game that you would normally enjoy making, but on someone else's terms and conditions, can be very unpleasant.

[Eclipse]

I don't think it has to be as extreme as being a monkey at EA. Even making a game that you would normally enjoy making, but on someone else's terms and conditions, can be very unpleasant.

almost every people has to do unpleasant stuff to live, you will do pleasant and unpleasant stuff also as game developer for sure, trying with another job will possibly lead to unpleasant stuff too.
The cool thing is that even if, dunno, coding a shitty promotional game will be unpleasant to do, it's always times better than what a lot of people needs to do on daily basis.

[sugarbeard]

I don't entirely agree with this "keep your job and hobbies separate" thing going on here. Musicians can make a living doing what they love. Golfers can make a living doing what they love. Actors make a living doing what they love. Painters (can) make a living doing what they love.

The capacity to be both successful with, and love, your craft is there. And it's bullshit to say otherwise. If you start doing something for a living then realize you hate it, well then it just wasn't meant for you. And that's fair, keep it as a hobby.

But you shouldn't force yourself to work in a field that doesn't completely interest you. You're only hurting yourself in the long run. And it certainly wont make you any happier.

My two cents.

[Ivan]

Sure, but all of the examples you give are highly idealized versions of the kind of stuff that most regular people in those fields end up doing. (Actors acting in horrible movies to make money, musicians doing contract work).

When you're a musician and you write your own music and get paid for playing in front of people, it's one thing. When you're a musician and you end up spending all of your time writing jingles for commercials, it's quite another.

[Eclipse]

well flash portals pays you for the game YOU want to make, Steam publish you if your game is cool, not if it's like they want it to be, so basically being an indie developer eliminates that problem.
The real problem for an indie developer is: will I be able to pay the rent and live out of it?

No one forces you to do stuff you don't want to do, but you will have a lot of bad nights thinking about the fact you don't have a fixed salary each month.

On the other side, you can join the dark forces, work as employee in a little\mid\big software house, and be stable economically without thinking too much at it.
Hopefully you will also find not only people to hate but also good friends and people worse\better than you that will learn from\teach you something.
It's not like you sign a deal with the Devil, if you'll end up not liking a job you can quit it, and you'll have more experience for sure anyway

[skaldicpoet9]

I'd try selling the Cactus Arcade, isn't it like 20 games? People would pay 5-10 bucks for that I reckon.

I'd buy that right now.

[r.kachowski]

i think that cactus should give up game development and start developing an elite team of super soldiers. get kids at a young and impressionable age, prech them your ways and tattoo them with your line art. make them squat, crunch, burn and sweat until they're naught but polished marble. brand recognition better than coca-cola

also sell the cactus arcade if you can it sort out with the musicians

[Fuzz]

and also add all the other games to cactus arcade. slap it on a cd. easy money. happy fans.

[raiten]

I don't know if you can find one in Gothenburg, but try and look for a desk in a shared office (maybe something like this, but perhaps less pretentious). I too feel fucking cuckoo somedays when I sit alone in front of the computer the entire day, but I'm hoping something like this would make things better.