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[falsion]

Can you actually "learn" to make music or is it something that some people just happen to be good at?

I've tried using everything from ModPlug to even the demo of FLStudio and I've never been able to make anything that even resembles music. Maybe it's because I never really took any form of music training or instruction in my life, which would be an obvious explanation except there's one thing that bugs me.

You see, I knew a friend a while back who made pretty good chiptunes (among other kinds of music). I asked him how he got so good at what he's doing and if he ever took any music lessons.

He told me that he never did. The most he ever did was listen to other chiptune artists and other musicians and pick up things from listening to them. But as far as making the music itself, it pretty much came to him naturally, or I suppose anyway.

I'm obviously not that musically gifted. If my friend just happened to just know what he was doing, and if being able to compose music is a natural talent, then that's a problem for me.

But is that really the case? Or is music something that can indeed be "learned?"

If so, what would be a good place to start? I've borrowed some books from the library about how to play the keyboard and that didn't really help much. Those books went over basic music theory and how to play an instrument, but apart from that I didn't really get much out of it.

What are your experiences? Is music something that you've always had a knack for, or did you actually learn how to make music as you do now? And if so, where did you start?

[Paul Eres]

i haven't composed music in some time, and was never that great at it (which is why i have others make music for my games now), but i think that being able to play an instrument helps in being able to compose music. even though they seem like separate talents, i suspect you can't realistically learn to compose music until you can perform it to some degree. so i'd recommend just playing other people's songs on an instrument, and composition will come much more naturally after that.

of course, i'm sure some people can make music without being able to play it, but all the music composers i know learned an instrument first, so it seems like a good first step, especially the learning music notation part.

another thing is that i've found a good way to learn to compose is play an instrument and just try different things out until you have something you like. it's related to improvisation. some people have other methods, some are good enough to just compose in their head and write it directly on sheet paper, but those are prodigious exceptions, i think composing with the aide of an instrument helps a lot for normal folk

[Havok]

If you enjoy music and have a desire to make music that is enough. Music really is about making what you want to listen too. Theory is secondary. I knew I wanted to write music so I went to college for it. Now I write music because of practice and training. Really what theory allows you to do is create music faster and perhaps allow you to step outside the box a bit more because you know how things are interrelated. Goof around on the piano or in a sequencer and keep what you like. You will never get better without writing a little bit every day.

I ran into this when I started and I'm sure you are right now. I would listen to other people's music and feel down because it didn't seem like there was anyway that I would ever be able to match their talent. Everything I did sounded like crap to me. The more I talked to other composers though I realized that as an artist this was natural. You are always your own worst critic. Also you find that for those artists that you really enjoy a lot of time went into their work. And I mean A LOT. It can take hours days or weeks to write a minute of music depending on the person.

So now I still think most of my music is crap but I am learning to appreciate the skills I have at this time and working to make them better. It is difficult but if you keep at it it'll get better. You've gotta love making music though and listening to a lot is key.

[Kadoba]

I'm in the same boat as you are at the moment. I'm desperately trying to learn how to compose classical western music but the only thing I'm able to come up with is a very good way to get frustrated. But you know, I've picked up a music theory book and a cheap ~$80 Casio piano and I'm playing away like mad, and even though it still sounds like crap it's a little less crappy each time.

Now music theory wont teach you how to make music but it will teach how music is made up. It gives you the pieces but you still need to solve the puzzle. It makes things a little less frustrating because you realize that it all does make sense and there is a method to the madness.

Practice and listen to the sort of music you want to create. Learn the instruments and the sounds and how the work together. Learn the different parts like the melody, base, percussion, etc. Only with time and practice will you become a better musician. Know that with every maddening moment you become that much closer.

That's what I tell myself anyway.

[falsion]

Yeah, the thing is I don't see myself really learning anything or getting better. I'm still just as bad as I was years ago.

When I say I can't make music, I really mean it, as in I don't know jack about it. Quite literally, if you put me in front of a keyboard or even some music program on the PC, I will make random noise. That's the extent in which I don't know anything about making music.

But considering that I've never had any sort of music training, that probably isn't surprising.

So then perhaps training would be the start. But what training do I need? Should I take classes on how to play an instrument or what?

[Mir@k]

It was my dream to compose orchestral music of decent quality, i remember i knew squat about music making when i first started, i thought i'd have to learn how to read partitures and things like that and i was like "oh noes i cannot learn this stuff", i was 12 back then, someone gave me for my birthday the verion 4.5 of FL studio and that's when i learned of the magical piano roll. I didn't have to learn any of the wordly musical stuff, i just played by ear what i believed sounded greatly. Even today i still don't understand a lot of terms of proper musical training, when people critique my work sometimes they go "you should change the modulation and add vibrato and whimsymichigan and alter the frizzle on your knyzzle" and i'm like "uh ok...?" and never really understand clearly what can be upgraded until i simply experiment on my own using filters in the mixer and sutff, then people are all "oh you fixed it, it totally sounds great now", so i end up understanding that knowing how a technique is called and how it's performed isn't necessary to create music.

This way of doing things is shunned by some people that did receive proper training on this filed because the feeling of listening someone's songs being better than yours when that person doesn't even know what modulation is feels the same way you can't win in a fighting game even though you practiced combos for hours because your opponent just smashes the buttons and manages to win that way.

My point is that "talent" doesn't apply here, you can develop your own musical sense, but this like everything else has to BE achieved by learning to use whatever program you like (knowing how to play an instrument in real life also helps i suppose, but i can make music like this without knowing how to play a simple flute so meh), no one has the skill to simply open a random music program and make beautiful music just because he had "talent", that is just false.

[Kadoba]

If you are serious about it, maybe you should pick up a music theory book. Like I said, learning music theory won't magically make you a master musician but it will give you tools and help ease the frustration knowing there are actual methods and constraints to making music. I use The Complete Idiot's Guide: Music Theory. At $20 it's a hell of a lot cheaper than a text book and the author presents the material in a very interesting fashion.

It's akin to grammar in languages. It's very possible to become completely proficient at a language just by listening and engaging, but it can become irritating if you don't know how the language is built. And it's hard talking to other people about the language because you don't know how the nouns, verbs and different parts are formed. Grammar helps you construct and dissect the language but learning JUST the grammar will never help you learn the language. That just takes experience and trial.

This mind set is working for me anyway. I'm not a musician by any account but this is what I have picked up and it's what keeps me going.

[Danmark]

I'm anything but experience in music, so you should probably ignore my advice, but I feel an important fact has yet to be mentioned.

I agree that learning an instrument is probably a good first step. I never tried writing music before I started learning the guitar. However, it's often forgotten that the human body is a musical instrument. Seriously, if you want to get a better feel for music, it actually helps to sing, chant, hum, scat-sing, or whistle frequently. You can improvise off songs you like, or make new versions in your style using any of these techniques. They also have the bonus side-effect of pissing other people off. Compared to any other instrument the body is highly affordable, convenient, portable, and durable.

Similarly, most surfaces are percussive instruments- including the human body. Become a hambone hero.

[Alec S.]

Definitely learn to play an instrument.  Theory is good, but it won't stick unless you can use it.  I'd say the guitar is easier to learn than piano once you get past the initial challenge of pressing down on the strings hard enough and getting your hand in the right position.

Learn about chords and scales.  Know the difference between a major chord and minor chord and major scale and minor scale.  And, more important than understanding why they're different technically, hear how they sound different.  Look up chord progressions for your favorite songs and learn to play them.  Figure out what they do and how it affects their sound.  Learn about improvisation.

And keep making music.  Practice to improve.

[Kekskiller]

I agree with Mir@k. It's not important to learn whatever music/instrument book you see on this little blue planet. Just look what you like/want and try to apply it. It's also about the tools you use - sequencers, synthesizers, guitars... Some things are only useful for collaboration, some are always useful. I don't think a musician needs notes, because there is a lot of variety in how to save/store/write your songs.

But the most important thing is: practizing makes a master. Even if you compose a shitload of goddamn horrible sound collages - you can still learn from every track you made. For me, it's normal to make a dozen of actually bad tracks to get something really awesome. Means, if you don't practice hard enough, you won't be able to do something decent - crying for life because you wanted it but where too lazy.

So, just keep doing stuff. For me, it helped to listen so simple music, like minimal compositions. You can hear how works (because it's so simple), what it makes good. Copy it, try to vary, get something more difficult. I've begun (is that right? sometimes i hate my self for beeing not a native english speaker...) with percussionic, non-melodic stuff. It's simple and fun! Even today some of my tracks have no melody, consisting of pure drum walls and sounds. And in fact IT IS music, so don't think it's no music just because it doesn't sound like what you expected/wanted. Try to get an ear for your own creations and sound in general. Some people already have it, some need to get it. But both kinds need to practice, so grab your instrument/software of of choice and start to make some noises 

[Craig Stern]

Can you actually "learn" to make music or is it something that some people just happen to be good at?

...

You see, I knew a friend a while back who made pretty good chiptunes (among other kinds of music). I asked him how he got so good at what he's doing and if he ever took any music lessons.

He told me that he never did. The most he ever did was listen to other chiptune artists and other musicians and pick up things from listening to them. But as far as making the music itself, it pretty much came to him naturally, or I suppose anyway.

That's how it is for me. I've taken music theory classes several times, but I never end up remembering a damn thing. I can't play an instrument. The way I compose is, I just imagine the song in my head, then do everything by ear from there. I have a little portable voice recorder that I hum into sometimes so I have a reference while I'm working, if it's particularly complicated. I have a thread where you can check out some of my game music here, if you're curious.

[Havok]

Those who are suggesting you learn an instrument are right on. The best instrument for a composer is a piano as it helps you visualize relationships, and later theory, the best. There is a reason you have a piano roll and not a guitar roll in a sequencer. I suck at the piano but can play a little yet more importantly it helps me visualize the things I do better.

A good way to start making more music is with simple exercises. Try making a thirty second piece using only a clarinet. Or any instrument for that matter while only using one note at a time. This was actually the first project I had to complete in my composition college course. It's quite fascinating and fun.

[mirosurabu]

Learn to play by ear.
Learn to improvise over the song.

Play some kind of simple music in the background and try to follow it with your keyboard/guitar. You will suck at first. But do this every day and you'll eventually learn it.

[sugarbeard]

I guess I've been lucky enough to have a natural feel for music. I've never taken any courses, read any books on the subject, or had any one on one lessons. Generally if I sit down with an instrument for a while, I can figure it out and begin to write music with it.

As far as the process for writing music... Usually it all starts out from wankery. Tossing a couple chords together on a guitar. Loading up some random sequence on a synthesizer. It's not all golden (BY FAR), but the more you keep at it, the more your ears will be trained to what's good, what's not, and what has potential.

My suggestions to would-be musicians is to find a way to save everything you do. No matter how small or silly or crappy. You never know when a new idea will hit you that you can use to spice up something you've already been working on. For an electronic musician this is an ease task, just save that shit and back it up on a usb hd or cd or blah blah blarg. Real instruments are obviously harder to record, but even a crappy 2$ cassette tape recorder from your local thrift store will do the deed.

Another suggestion is to pick an instrument (non computer based) and learn it. Learn it hard! Feel it out and make it your bitch. Even if you're focusing on electronic computer based music, the advantages to knowing how to play a physical instrument are vast. I'd suggest going back to that thrift store where you found your 2$ cassette recorder, and also picking up a 5$ children's keyboard. Play it. Everyday. Every. Day. Also, have patience.

Just because music comes naturally to some people doesn't mean it can't be learnt as well.

[rogerlevy]

sugarbeard, loved your post.

Unlike the thread I started to learn "technique", which is I guess attracting the more
soundsmith-y types of music makers, I'm with all the theory guys here.  I improvised, taught myself songs by ear, took theory lessons (which I kind of remember), and practiced composing like almost every day in my growing-up years.  No subsitute for practice.