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[Glaiel-Gamer]

The major flaw of the system is really having to set up a mochi whatever account as the PLAYER.  How do you get that first signup?  Where is the userbase going to come from?

Nitrome was giving away free in-game bonuses for 0 mochicoins, which required an account to "buy" and supposedly it helped a little

[Iamthejuggler]

Adam the point is if i am feeding a quarter into a game it's because i am in an arcade. It's a totally different context, and I personally don't think i'd ever consider doing the same thing on some flash games portal. And more to the point i don't see a generation used to playing these games for free will even consider it, unless the game is bloody awesome. In that case i'd much rather a "pay $x to unlock the full game forever" option.

[Aquin]

Well there is a difference between personal feelings, anecdotal evidence, and then pure statistics.

We're gonna need statistics to settle this one.  It's time to experiment!

[Eclipse]

You've never fed a quarter into a hard arcade game?  I think it's completely possible to make the kind of game where this would work awesomely well.

in arcades:

- you're not at home
- you're not on internet
- there are not other free games
- you entered the arcade already thinking about spending something, is like walking in a pub, it's completely different from selling online stuff with virtual coins.

Also last but not least: the arcades are dying because people can play at home, buying games

[moi]

You've never fed a quarter into a hard arcade game?  I think it's completely possible to make the kind of game where this would work awesomely well.

in arcades:

- you're not at home
- you're not on internet
- there are not other free games
- you entered the arcade already thinking about spending something, is like walking in a pub, it's completely different from selling online stuff with virtual coins.

Also last but not least: the arcades are dying because people can play at home, buying games

Yeah selling games online with wirtual coins. Pshah, what a stupid idea, it will never work!!!

[aeiowu]

oh moi...   :D

@eclipse: the real point here is that making money (a sustainable living) as a developer on flash games using the current systems in place is totally broken right now. You've got fair points, even if they're not really explained or backed up. I don't have any data on this stuff, nor does really anyone else so the whole area is pretty gray. Nonetheless a change like this will be met with resistance, but this system has the potential to give a lot of power back to devs. That's an incredibly good thing. Just because it'll be hard for the pioneers doing it doesn't mean it won't work eventually on a larger scale.

[Iamthejuggler]

Fairly sure eclipse is coming from a similar angle from me. I would love flash game development to get a better way of earning, partly because i'm battling my inability to finish anything to make a flash game. But some of the options people have suggested so far are nice in theory, but fatally flawed (imo) in practice. Getting people to shift from "free games, yay. lunch break will be funner" to "this looks great, let me spend money on it" is a huge deal.

Personally i can't see it happening without a huge amount of resistance, especially considering (as someone previously mentioned) a lot of the current flash game audience are youngsters with no real access to virtual cash. Real(!) gamers probably wouldn't bat an eyelid, but they aren't the audience. And they aren't going to be. Unless there are going to be new portals that don't host every shitty flash game under the sun then I don't reckon real gamers will pay for flash games.

[AdamAtomic]

I definitely appreciate hearing everyone's opinions, but let me compare the different situations:

0 - You can play the whole game for free forever (current state of Flash gaming)

1 - You have to pay up front to play the game at all, but once you pay you can play forever

2 - You don't pay anything up front, and you only pay if you want to use a continue

#2 sounds closest to #0 to me, but you guys think #1 will be embraced more readily?  That seems...unlikely to me?  Like I said, it's awesome hearing input from everybody, I just genuinely do not understand the argument.  NO free play will be better received than SOME free play?

[Μarkham]

My game contains a level editor that allows players to upload custom levels to a server, and can have a maximum of 8 tilesets.  There are 6 areas in the "story mode" part, each unlocking a tile set in the editor.  Does it seem objectionable to sell the two "extra" tile sets in the editor at 400 coins ($0.50) each?

[Iamthejuggler]

I definitely appreciate hearing everyone's opinions, but let me compare the different situations:

0 - You can play the whole game for free forever (current state of Flash gaming)

1 - You have to pay up front to play the game at all, but once you pay you can play forever

2 - You don't pay anything up front, and you only pay if you want to use a continue

#2 sounds closest to #0 to me, but you guys think #1 will be embraced more readily?  That seems...unlikely to me?  Like I said, it's awesome hearing input from everybody, I just genuinely do not understand the argument.  NO free play will be better received than SOME free play?

No, What I was saying was that #1 is that you have free play up to a point. After that point (i.e. past the demo section) you have to pay x amount to get the full game. I totally agree that noone in their right mind will pay to play a flash game they've never played before.

#2 would just make me not play the game. The idea of having to pay per play is a no-no for me outside of a physical arcade console. I know people are saying it's a challenge to try and complete the game without needing a continue, but for me, that aint gonna happen. I'm not that good a gamer, nor that obsessive a gamer. I am just trying to put forwards my personal take on it. Maybe the flash community would embrace the hardcore gameplayer slant that is needed for that to work, but i don't reckon a community based on casual games is likely to.

And just to reiterate, never was i suggesting people paid for a game they hadn't played before like your #1. That just wouldn't happen.

[AdamAtomic]

Cool - well for the #1 option I would definitely advise AGAINST using mochicoins for that, just use paypal or plimus or some other system I think, mochicoins cut is way too huge.

One counter-intuitive thing about the continues system is it potentially earns more money from people who perform worse at the game, or are (by correlation maybe?) less passionate about the project, which definitely strikes me as odd.  But maybe that is true across retail too, and trying to draw a line or relationship between passionate/absorbed/won-over players and your actual revenue is not a great idea?

[Iamthejuggler]

See i see this as a pretty good way of enabling the really good flash games to be paid games rather than solely sponsorship based. Sure mochiads is taking a hell of a cut, but i am assuming the security of using that is way better than using paypal and what, sending them a download link to the swf? That's not going to end up on pirate bay at all.

And your point about skilled/passionate players paying less than less skilled/passionate players, how is that true for retail games? I don't recall being charged by a retail game for dying.

Kinda feel i'm playing devil's advocate here, but that's fine.

[AdamAtomic]

I guess what I was asking is are passionate players more likely to pirate a game or less?  I'm just wondering about whether there even IS a passion-to-money curve or line, and whether or not that would have any effect on suggested mochicoins implementations, that's all

[Eclipse]

Yeah selling games online with wirtual coins. Pshah, what a stupid idea, it will never work!!!

that way it's not selling games


oh Adam, i can see a future with cracks for flash games now   

[Stegersaurus]

oh Adam, i can see a future with cracks for flash games now   

The real money won't be in MochiCoins, it'll be in Flash DRM