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[AdamAtomic]

hehe, I gotta say the more I think about mochicoins and mochiads the more I seriously consider never using mochi anything...I think I'm gonna still try making a for-profit Flash game soon, hopefully this year, but I am thinking of this basic approach:

1 - Put the entire game up online, with reasonable difficulty, lives, and continues defaults (normal difficulty, 3 lives, 1 continue, or something)

2 - Put a "buy now!" option on the main menu, that will be world of goo style purchase.  You pay me $10 or $20 or whatever, and you get the whole game, DRM-free, for mac, win and linux.

3 - The downloadable version of the game will have basically a cheats menu - level select, infinite continues, infinite ammo, etc, kind of like the Rare FPS games, so you can play through the game any way you want, but I don't think it will have any new REAL content; just different ways of accessing it (boss rush mode, etc).

What do you guys think about that basic approach?

[aeiowu]

i think it's definitely interesting and worth a shot.

We're doing this for our next big game to some degree. Although we're locking out 2/3 of it for non-paying customers. So it'll be a typical shareware model. the first 20-30m of the game are free and can be replayed endlessly, but you can't reach the 2nd and 3rd act until you buy the full version. We are a bit worried about locking out so much of the game but we're spending _a lot_ of time on this. Probably 5-6 months, so we feel it'll be worth the $5 (maybe) we charge people.

I think your idea is sound though, since it'd be more bonus stuff than locking away content. It'd probably have less of an outrage factor for free-to-players. I guess with Liferaft we want people to pay to play the game, for a number of reasons (excuse the in-progress CSS).

I should add we also have a strong desire to interact directly with our audience. I'm tired of being separated by layers of obstruction ("agents", sponsors, portals, etc.) We feel like a barrier such as pay to play our game will create a filter for what could grow a community for a much larger MP game we're planning.

[Glaiel-Gamer]

hehe, I gotta say the more I think about mochicoins and mochiads the more I seriously consider never using mochi anything...I think I'm gonna still try making a for-profit Flash game soon, hopefully this year, but I am thinking of this basic approach:

I'm never using mochiads unless they make a less obtrusive ad and report significantly better CPM than a newgrounds ad. I've used mochibot for tracking before, it's more reliable than any other tracker I've tried for flash games. I may try mochicoins.

But if it works out I can rip out some quick "edgy" game and sell it to adult swim for boatloads of money.

[Stegersaurus]

What do you guys think about that basic approach?

I think you should be specific about what you "hold back" in the purchasable version, because I think that to an extent you do need to go above and beyond what is on the web-version in order to compel people. A significant growth in replayability. For example, Boss rush is just the same gameplay but with the bosses back to back. What about Noitu Love 2, where you can play through the game as a different character with different abilities? What if you included a set of "challenge" levels to appeal to hardcore players? What about level editors and a community that shares them?

I personally think that you'll attract more players with newer, harder challenges than you will giving them "cheats" that make the game easier, because it's likely that they've already played through your game without cheats on the web. Giving them a sandbox to play freely with new toys is one thing, but I think if you've already given them the majority of the "Experience" they can have, it will greatly reduce the compulsion to purchase.

[Μarkham]

I'm never using mochiads unless they make a less obtrusive ad and report significantly better CPM than a newgrounds ad. I've used mochibot for tracking before, it's more reliable than any other tracker I've tried for flash games.

So how does Newgrounds' ad service compare?  I've never been able to find any info on that, statistics and stuff.

[AdamAtomic]

Stegersaurus - yes I absolutely can see both sides of the coin on that issue, if you'll forgive the pun.  I do not know where one draws the line between what is free and what isn't...I think you risk enraging the viral, irrational masses if you hold back too much, but would someone actually pay for a cheat menu and the ability to play offline?  I have no idea.  The problem of Flash monetization is a lot like the DLC stuff in that way I think?

Pleasing the Flash-playing masses is important because you can take an unknown, unsponsored game like Gravity Hook and dig up a quarter million views in a month, which is totally rad.

But always the eternal question of "what will they buy"...

I was a late beta tester on Noitu Love 2, so I had played through the entire game with all the characters before it came out.  When it came out, I was one of the first people to buy it.  So on some level I know that for some people there is an absolutely great reason to purchase a game even though you aren't getting ANYTHING extra by doing so.  I bought Advance Wars 2 months after I played through most of the game on a flash cart.  But I've been told repeatedly that that was a weird thing to do.

So...I dunno.  Are there enough people like that out there?  Is it possible to make the process easy and transparent enough to engender or play to this idea of supporting independent artists/creators?  I like the idea of "selling" the alt game modes, cheat menu, and locally executable versions because that at least caters (panders?) to the enthusiasts, rather than the casual consumers or unskilled players.  It (I hope) ensures that you do not enrage the free-publicity-viral-flash-audience group.  It's an easy thing to add or include that can make replays more interesting.

This all assumes of course that you made something that is fun and interesting enough that people actually want to replay it, or loved it so much on the first play through that they don't care and just want to be able to say they bought it.

IDEA

I think it would be interesting to have a non-advertising-driven flash community where purchasing games provided you with badges for your user profile.  So on the forum and the high score boards, you could see instantly what games that user had purchased, and click the badge to jump to that game's home page, etc.

BRAIN DUMP COMPLETE this is currently my favorite thread btw, a lot of brain food here!!

[aeiowu]

@non-advertising-driven flash community

totally! i think it'd be sweet. Actually, i could see Blurst doing this pretty well. I know they're 100% Unity, but to the user it's pretty much the same difference.

[Aquin]

Adam, if that site existed I would most certainly be a member.

[Μarkham]

I found this interesting:

  How much do MochiCoins cost players in real dollars?

    Coins are sold in varying packages. The exchange price is currently $1.00 USD for 800 coins. Additional free coins are given to promote the purchase of larger packages, however these are not considered paid coins, and when spent, do not earn either Mochi Media or the developer revenue. Mochi Media may decide, at its own discretion and at any time, to change the exchange value of MochiCoins. You can purchase MochiCoins here.

So pretty much people get free coins when they buy lots of coins.  Also, when they run out of paid coins, things are bought with free coins.  In the words of bob, a Mochi employee,

You get 60% nomatter what. If the coin is paid, you get 60% of that. If the coin is free, you get 60% of that too.

How very generous of them.

[Aquin]

Mochi kinda sounds like a scam to me.  Admittedly I'm an outsider that's never done business with them.

This thread certainly isn't encouraging me to change my mind, however.  Yikes. 

[aeiowu]

You get 60% nomatter what. If the coin is paid, you get 60% of that. If the coin is free, you get 60% of that too.

How very generous of them.

Hahaha, wow. He must be counting on the majority of devs not having a basic understanding of math.

[Eclipse]

so you get the 60%  of 0? 

[battlerager]

so you get the 60%  of 0? 

Yes.

 

[moi]

If you give a piece of game free and then ask for money for the rest, you can be sure that people will be much more pissed off than if you just ask money for the whole game.
And I'm not convinced the conversion rates would be very different anyway.

[Stegersaurus]

I've figured it out! All you have to do is something like Upgrade Complete, but with micropayments! Charge them 1 coin for a ship, 1 coin for a gun for their ship, 1 coin for each sprite you want to see in game, 1 coin per bullet, etc. It's ingenius!