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May 18, 2013, 10:57:58 PM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralWhy so much hatred against gaming industry
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Author Topic: Why so much hatred against gaming industry  (Read 10415 times)
Bebop
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« on: February 28, 2007, 12:02:01 PM »

The title says it all. I do not have any particualr opinion  only want to know the reason you are for or against. It's a DEBATE!!! Smiley
Please explain yourself with intelligent argument.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 12:08:58 PM by Bebop » Logged
axel
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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2007, 12:06:57 PM »

They're doing it wrong! Sad
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« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2007, 12:48:30 PM »

They ruined Deus Ex: IW. Sad
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« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2007, 12:56:20 PM »

They're doing it wrong! Sad

Sounds about right. Not to mention they're getting away with murder because of their size. How many "MLB 200X" titles are going to keep getting bought up again and again? Then don't forget employee abuse, horrible marketing (I'm looking at you Sony), among other atrocities Geneva should make rulings on.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes awesome things can happen (like Spore, B+W, Sims, Half Life, and others I can't seem to remember) but for the most part I just see the same shit getting pumped out again and again and again.

To be fair, the 'indie' scene fucks up a lot too. Anyone care to sing the "I'm sick of match 3 / mosaic / find the clues clones" song with me?
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Anthony Flack
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« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2007, 05:25:29 PM »

Oh, for sure I think the business model is a bit screwy right now. But still, almost all of my favourite games came out of the "mainstream", and there are still great games coming out fairly regularly. Almost all of them are made in Japan, though, which is possibly significant.
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moi
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« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2007, 05:30:31 PM »

In the last 5 years there has been less than 5 games I considered buying in the retail space.
All of it is rehash of tired formulas, ww2,terrorists, etc,etc...
Oh and it's the same with console games.
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lelebęcülo
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« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2007, 06:45:05 PM »

Let's see, where to begin. They refuse to try anything new. CRPGs are becoming a joke. I mean, I don't want to start a huge war here, but Oblivion was not good, innovative, pretty, or fun. Sure the models had high poly counts, and the forests had alot of leaves, but I really did not see a single good animation, or model in the game. Maybe I've just gotten picky about artwork; leaving out the artwork though, the game was more repetitive than rat killing in MMOs.
Then there are the MMOs, they could be fucking amazing, if the industry would put some thought into reward vs. risk, how to move away from grinds, and making worlds believable (lore/interesting quests/events). There are so many things that could be done with the "genre", and yet they've done nothing but go backwards from EQ. Eve has some decent ideas, A Tail in the Desert does too. Ryzom might even have a hint of an idea. The mainstream stuff though: Vanguard, WoW, shit do people even play any others? I'm so tired of treadmills I could shoot someone. I mean, time is definitely an intrinsic value to MMOs, but deciding who leads the game world based on how much endurance their ass has for the computer chair is not viable, fun, or whatever you want to call it, in my opinion.
Then there are FPSs, uhm do I even need to talk about those? They involve shooting people, and they're getting less and less creative as time goes on. Half-life 2 is a major step up in graphics and interaction (physics), but where the hell are the variety of models, landscapes, worlds? Sadly, it offers probably the best "story" out of the current gen shooters, though correct me if you feel I'm wrong, b/c I don't have much patience for most of 'em anymore.
RTSs, well they were cool when they came out because strategy can be really fun, and they've been refined, but do we really need to have the same essential mechanics for the whole genre. I know there are more ways to control a war or society than the same tired mechanic we've all known since Dune, (or before?). Look at DF (http://www.bay12games.com/), he's got something going with that AI run world. Of course DF is all in ASCII, but I think it's definitely its own brand of strategy.
Platformers don't really exist anymore; uhm, ok wait the DS isn't all that bad. I enjoy it once every blue moon, and there's alot of potential to it. I'm sure there are many more arguments about why the mainstream sucks, but suffice to say they basically arn't creative anymore.
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Inane
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« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2007, 07:21:29 PM »

My thoughts are pretty much Gargantuas with more curse words.
Although I do think Half-Life 2 was really good and there are actually pretty varied enviroments. I detest Steam, though, so that kind of ruins it for me, a little.
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Albert Lai
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« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2007, 08:09:03 PM »

If we are going to be talking about mainstream - it's obvious that as computing power and memory increases, gamers are going to be demanding that both are put to good use - meaning more time and more employees working are models, programming, and so on. This means more money spent, yada yada yada, and now we have an industry where businesses could seriously hurt themselves if they invest time into a stinker of a game, so they prefer to play it safe and stick with the formulas that work. More power to them.

The consumers, on the other hand, demand more creativity and freshness in the genre, while helpfully having no idea what this means in terms of gameplay, leading developers to scratch their heads and throw their hands in the air. (This isn't to say there hasn't been good mainstream games, though.)

I like how this post was basically a rehashing of something everyone already knows. 
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Derek
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« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2007, 08:10:15 PM »

I kind of enjoyed Gears of War. *runs away*
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Anthony Flack
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« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2007, 08:18:08 PM »

Well, I don't tend to play retail PC games, MMORPGS, RTSes or FPSes. Or American-made games in general. So it all seems okay to me. Certainly there is not a huge volume of great games being made, but was there ever? I liked Shadow of the Colossus; that was interesting. I liked Outrun 2006. I liked Gradius V. I liked Rhythm Tengoku. I liked God Hand. I liked a whole buncha games.  They still get made.
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moi
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« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2007, 09:09:05 PM »

In Japan. Cool
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lelebęcülo
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« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2007, 09:49:13 PM »

They're doing it wrong! Sad

That sounds so simple, but it's so right.  I'm not going to pretend things aren't changing or that people haven't noticed.  XBox Live and the other ESD systems are exactly what we've been asking for.  Now we just need to use them, instead of crying about them in forums. Tongue
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« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2007, 10:14:19 PM »

Oblivion was not good, innovative, pretty, or fun.

The character faces were so scary.
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Alex May
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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2007, 03:27:35 AM »

Let's see, where to begin. They refuse to try anything new. CRPGs are becoming a joke. I mean, I don't want to start a huge war here, but Oblivion was not good, innovative, pretty, or fun. Sure the models had high poly counts, and the forests had alot of leaves, but I really did not see a single good animation, or model in the game. Maybe I've just gotten picky about artwork; leaving out the artwork though, the game was more repetitive than rat killing in MMOs.
Then there are the MMOs, they could be fucking amazing, if the industry would put some thought into reward vs. risk, how to move away from grinds, and making worlds believable (lore/interesting quests/events). There are so many things that could be done with the "genre", and yet they've done nothing but go backwards from EQ. Eve has some decent ideas, A Tail in the Desert does too. Ryzom might even have a hint of an idea. The mainstream stuff though: Vanguard, WoW, shit do people even play any others? I'm so tired of treadmills I could shoot someone. I mean, time is definitely an intrinsic value to MMOs, but deciding who leads the game world based on how much endurance their ass has for the computer chair is not viable, fun, or whatever you want to call it, in my opinion.
Then there are FPSs, uhm do I even need to talk about those? They involve shooting people, and they're getting less and less creative as time goes on. Half-life 2 is a major step up in graphics and interaction (physics), but where the hell are the variety of models, landscapes, worlds? Sadly, it offers probably the best "story" out of the current gen shooters, though correct me if you feel I'm wrong, b/c I don't have much patience for most of 'em anymore.
RTSs, well they were cool when they came out because strategy can be really fun, and they've been refined, but do we really need to have the same essential mechanics for the whole genre. I know there are more ways to control a war or society than the same tired mechanic we've all known since Dune, (or before?). Look at DF (http://www.bay12games.com/), he's got something going with that AI run world. Of course DF is all in ASCII, but I think it's definitely its own brand of strategy.
Platformers don't really exist anymore; uhm, ok wait the DS isn't all that bad. I enjoy it once every blue moon, and there's alot of potential to it. I'm sure there are many more arguments about why the mainstream sucks, but suffice to say they basically arn't creative anymore.

I don't agree with a lot of this. New things are tried all the time, yes there is a hesitancy from some publishers about new IP, and sometimes new game ideas, but there are still some crazy mad games that get released. Naturally they don't make a profit so a publisher is less likely to try that again.

Platformers don't exist - well that's hardly true, but the bottom dropped out of that market supposedly, when excellent games like Jak and Daxter and so forth start not selling so well then what's the point in making more of them? They had to innovate (by, heh, by adding weapons) to make sales, and it worked.

Oblivion gets by with its large world and bags of (albeit very repetitive, similar) content. Yes, it's not an anal D&D CRPG but then that probably wouldn't sell as well. It's all about markets.

What do you want from an FPS anyway? It's first-person, and you shoot people. You're seeing more stuff now in FPS than you ever did before: wall-walking, portals and and gravity manipulation in Prey; bullet-time and horror in FEAR; behaving like a fricking animal in Far Cry; the list goes on. Yes, the old problems are still there, and those need working on, but you can't really argue that the FPS genre has no new stuff going on in it. I could agree that it's saturated with a lot of other crap (WW2 shooters raise your hands please).

I kind of agree with you about RTS, though the Total War series is a good example of breaking the mould slightly and Supreme Commander deals with a lot of the standard RTS problems quite artfully, but your point about Dwarf Fortress is a good one, and shows up how tired RTS really is.

Of course, I personally hate the industry for other reasons - the way its employees are treated and paid, and the developer-publisher relationship.
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