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[dkanaga]

Hey all,

A friend and I have been working on some prototypes for a collection of interactive music pieces/instrument-ish things (à la Electroplankton). There's nothing playable yet, but here's a video:

http://vimeo.com/6812674

We'd love to hear what you think !

Tech info/question: right now the visuals are all being done in Processing, with SuperCollider handling the sound. Unfortunately that sort of set-up doesn't distribute very well (both p5 and sc have to be running!), so once the prototypes are finished, we're hoping to port the games to another language  that will allow the visuals and sound to be compiled together into a nice executable binary. Does anyone know of any C++ libraries that allow for real-time synthesis? Or any other ideas that might work for this?

Thanks!

- David

[John Nesky]

Does anyone know of any C++ libraries that allow for real-time synthesis?

You mean like PortAudio? It just gives you a buffer to drop wave samples into at 44100 Hz. Or are you looking for something with more features?

[GregWS]

Woah, really cool stuff man! 

I thought the one you started and ended with was a bit too grating though.

[curby]

All my research into real time synthesis solutions has pretty much always led me back to using a mashup of max msp/pd and hooking it up to my game code, but again like your project it wouldn't be a standalone executable (max/pd would have to be setup and run in the background), so I'd also be intrigued to find out if anyone else has any other suggestions.

Really enjoyed the video, I'm a big fan of elektroplanktons and am intrigued to see more.
 

[agj]

That is truly great. I hope you find the right libraries.

[0rel]

Does anyone know of any C++ libraries that allow for real-time synthesis?

i am working on exactly something like this.

(es == executable sound)
modular, like pd/max-msp/Reaktor, but much simpler, and not that advanced.
there's an editor where you can construct your piece/patch, save it, then compile it into your application/game together with the synth library, and you're ready to control your piece in realtime (over arbitrary number of i/o slots). with effects, filters and pretty much control down to every sample.

problems:
* the performance is not very good.
* a documentation in proper english is still missing (it's not that complicated though, if you know other similar tools a bit)
* i'm tired of it, and don't know if i should just give it away under an open-source license, or try to sell it (because i really need to make some money).

but if you're serious about these types of games, my tool might be a viable solution for you. we could handle something out, i could also help you to integrate the tool... but it would need some work.

there's also FMOD Designer, you could try. i never tested it in depth though...

---

your prototypes look already quite interesting.
actually, sound games (à la 'Elektroplankton', 'Everyday Shooter' and 'Rez'...) are my main interest as well (as a game maker). and i think it's really a genre where indie games can be strong... but i'm not a coder genius, nor a good musican. still, i want to make some stuff there...

here some small (rather conceptal) prototypes i've done while working on/with that modular synth tool.
(some might be inspiring for you as well, i thought)

es_sound_game_prototypes0.zip

technically, it should work... i also used that libraray in all my TIGS compo games.
still, the workflow is not perfect (compared to your solution, with supercollider, i guess... because you can't run the game and edit the patch at the same time yet), and again, the weak performance limits the complexity of the patch... but for smaller things like in your vimeo video, it should totally work out. still, i would really like to make it work with some kind of multi-track composition in realtime too, sometime...

[henzenmann]

This might be of interest: http://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/stk/index.html

[dkanaga]

Thanks! the tech tips are all very helpful--the STK looks like it could be just what we need, and I'm also impressed by the list of stuff that uses PortAudio, like Pd and AudioMulch...that suggests it should be pretty powerful, too...

@GregWS: funny you say that about the grating beginning and ending; for some reason the screen capture software we used distorted the sound, which wasn't like that originally (it was much softer and warmer). Thought it sounded kind of cool though, like My Bloody Valentine or something, but we'll see where that goes

@Orel: I really liked your prototypes! I was especially fond of the one with the balls that could sort of scrape against each other, which created a really unique sound A few of the others crashed my (very crappy) copy of windows running on my mac, but I really liked the ones I was able to play As far as your es library is concerned: it sounds really cool ; that said, right now we are planning on doing the project free/open-source, and we don't really have any money, so unless you decide to GPL it or something similar, we probably won't be able to use it... also, we aren't to the part of the process where we need anything besides supercollider and processing, but once we get there, if it seems like your library could be helpful, I'll get in touch.

Thanks again for your thoughts!

[GregWS]

Ah, interesting; definitely interested to see where this goes! 

[LeFishy]

DAVID!

Assuming it is you... haha.

Looks cool. Processing working out well I was thinking about having a fiddle with it at some point in the future.

/derail.

[Perrin]

Very much liking your prototypes so far. Reminds me of that Electroplankton for DS but more interesting.

[0rel]

I really liked your prototypes!

thank you! i'm glad you liked it. also, thanks for testing them out on Mac .

I was especially fond of the one with the balls that could sort of scrape against each other, which created a really unique sound

that's still my favorite one as well... (we've also done another version of the same thing back in my missed, but aborted study time... it was for the NDS (homebrewed) )

by the way,
i've been listening to some of your music. and i have to say, i really love it! especially 'Music for Games 2', it's beautiful! 8D

A few of the others crashed my (very crappy) copy of windows running on my mac

i'm sorry about that... some of the programs are already older, and i used only the microsoft compiler there, which always requires that the exactly fitting DLL files are installed... otherwise the program simply crashes, for some reason. but, your whole computer crashed? hmmm... that's strange.

As far as your es library is concerned: it sounds really cool Smiley; that said, right now we are planning on doing the project free/open-source, and we don't really have any money, so unless you decide to GPL it or something similar, we probably won't be able to use it... also, we aren't to the part of the process where we need anything besides supercollider and processing, but once we get there, if it seems like your library could be helpful, I'll get in touch.

okay, good. i'm working on a first alpha release version, which will hopefully be ready at the end of this month... all packed up, with a simple tutorial, some demo patches and a first documentation. probably, available on a separate web page soon (http://es.0rel.com/).

i've decided to either go for a totally unrestricted open-source license (MIT/BSD or LGPL), or otherwise, only the editor will be for free, and when someone wants to use the library in a commercial project, it will cost something (depending on the size of the project), all handled specifically per project, via e-mail. - for free projects though, i really want it to be open for everyone. i don't know how to handle this exactly, yet.
when i'm a step further, i will send you a message... for free things, you can use it in any case, if you want.

but i don't know if you're mainly working on/for Mac... my tool is mainly for Windows, but i got it working on Linux too. - the library itself should be portable 1:1 though, only the editor would need some work to get in running on a Mac (window handling, audio), but i don't have experience with Macs in general. so, probably i can only provide it for Windows for now...


@PortAudio / audio libraries:

since i've spent quite some time with realtime audio now, here the c++ libs i've tested so far, for the hardware handling (note: my synth library itself doesn't depend on any specific audio API).

i hadn't much luck with PortAudio on my side (but i can't remember why exactly). currently OpenAL (Soft) seems to have all i need, also to possibility to stream sample by sample, which was not immediately obvious when i tried it out the first time...

OpenAL (free, cross platform): http://www.devmaster.net/articles/openal-tutorials/lesson8.php (streaming tutorial)
OpenAL Soft (free, corss platform): http://kcat.strangesoft.net/openal.html
SDL_mixer (free, cross platform): http://www.libsdl.org/projects/SDL_mixer/docs/SDL_mixer_frame.html
RtAudio (free, cross platform): http://www.music.mcgill.ca/~gary/rtaudio/
fmod (free for non-commercial use, cross platform): http://www.fmod.org/
BASS (free for non-commercial use, Windows / Linux cross platform): http://www.un4seen.com/
irrKlang (free for non-commercial use, cross platform): http://www.ambiera.com/irrklang/
DirectSound (Windows): http://www.eastcoastgames.com/directx/chapter2.html (lowlevel, but problematic under >= Vista)

[Impossible]

OpenAL (free, cross platform): http://www.devmaster.net/articles/openal-tutorials/lesson8.php (streaming tutorial)
OpenAL Soft (free, corss platform): http://kcat.strangesoft.net/openal.html
SDL_mixer (free, cross platform): http://www.libsdl.org/projects/SDL_mixer/docs/SDL_mixer_frame.html
RtAudio (free, cross platform): http://www.music.mcgill.ca/~gary/rtaudio/
fmod (free for non-commercial use, cross platform): http://www.fmod.org/
BASS (free for non-commercial use, Windows / Linux): http://www.un4seen.com/
irrKlang (free for non-commercial use, cross platform): http://www.ambiera.com/irrklang/
DirectSound (Windows): http://www.eastcoastgames.com/directx/chapter2.html (lowlevel, but problematic under >= Vista)

Good list, although you're leaving out XAudio2 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee415737(VS.85).aspx).  Microsoft's new replacement for DirectSound (on PC) and XAudio (on Xbox.)  It seems to be a decent successor.

[dkanaga]

We just finished the project if you are interested

Here's the TIGForum thread where we posted it: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=11545.0

Or, if you want to bypass that step, you can download it here: http://www.minornine.com/ada/