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[baconman]

No, because, foolhardy as it is to admit; there's "revealed" traps that I've accidentally stumbled into, and some "found" ones behind chaos walls that - watching my path instead of my map - I foolishly waltzed right into.

Sometimes pit traps are helpful for escaping hordes, too; or at least rallying them all on one side of you if you're surrounded. ...sometimes.

Gotta let "human error" run it's course. I'd hotkey disarms (if they aren't already), though.

[JobLeonard]

The whole point of traps is to punish those who don't pay attention... So what baconman said.

[Nate_G]

Completely agree with JobLeonard and baconman

[st33d]

what if I give you the ability to trigger a revealed trap instead of disarming it if you're holding down?

[mokesmoe]

It's really easy to reveal all the traps by searching though.

[mokesmoe]

I was messing around with the test room and the AI, and I found some cool things.

First: the AI can navigate this really well:

Code:

##########

(# = ladders)

And this as well:

Code:

## ### ##
 # # # #
 ### ###

But the coolest thing is if you  make this:

Code:

###########
# # # # # #
# # # # # #
# # # # # #
# # # # # #
# # # # # #

Generate the AI mesh, then take away the connecting bits like this:

Code:

# # # # # #
# # # # # #
# # # # # #
# # # # # #
# # # # # #
# # # # # #

But don't re-generate the path so it still goes along the top, the AI will jump from ladder to ladder like a boss.


It would be awesome is there was a special case where is there were to tall enough ladders with an one space gap between them it would generate a path across the top. I understand if you can't though.

[st33d]

Depends if it was consistent between all character speeds.

There's still issues will flee-ing logic I'm working on and I've remembered that I wanted to solve throwing weapons and bravery as well.

[mokesmoe]

The height needed to jump ladders isn't consistent, and golems and trolls can't do it. (or need a really high ladder)

However, I noticed no bad side affects of making AI nodes off the side of the top of a ladder. In fact, I went into a dungeon and made some fake AI nodes off the edge of every ledge in a room. The AI's patrol route avoided the fake node automatically, so the enemies didn't walk off the edge by accident. Also, the AI got better at chasing me as it ran off the edge at me, also give it a better chance to stun me too.

So maybe not the ladder thing, but I would advise putting a one-way node path horizontally off of ledges into the air, and then a downwards path from there.

And if the AI tries to "jump" somewhere is can't, it automatically finds a new route when it falls.

[st33d]

I've put your ninja-nodes idea on my todo list, but my main concern is if it's possible to game the AI of slower monsters. Leaping on to an adjacent ladder is no use if you end up below the enemy.

Enemies are programmed to run away if their target is directly above them (unlike the minion). So them doing ninja stunts is no good if it just tricks them into suicide. AI exploits that aren't difficult to pull off are unacceptable.

I'll need to brute force check this stuff for logic flaws before okaying it.

I'm currently testing out new flee logic and throwing weapon logic.

[mokesmoe]

Is it wrong that I do almost all my enemy testing by spawning clones of myself? (I use other races sometimes for their speeds.)

Slower monsters will be far enough down the ladder that it wouldn't be any easier than when they try to climb a ladder and change their minds once you are over it. You should also let the AI drop off of a ladder if you are directly above them, because you can use that to game the AI of slower monsters as it is. Just stand next to the top of a ladder, wait for the slow monster to be almost at the top, then move over and drop on him. The ninja trick would just cause this same scenario, but with the monster lower and therefore safer.

And no matter how hard I try, I can't get a goblin to jump into my feet either.
I just did it by jumping off the ladder with careful timing while starting right above where the goblin starts to meet the ladder. (Just moving down didn't work.) When I tried it a second time I was slightly too early and he stunned me instead. Sounds difficult enough to me. (And fun! It's like a duel.)

[st33d]

It's best to test with kobolds or golems. Test for the worst.

Slower monsters will be far enough down the ladder that it wouldn't be any easier than when they try to climb a ladder and change their minds once you are over it.

It's still a suicide move though isn't it? This manoeuvre only makes sense if the monster can dive on to the player. If one monster can't do it when hit by a slow spell, then I'm not implementing it.

I'll be testing anyway because there may be one-way diagonal nodes where this sort of thing works.

You should also let the AI drop off of a ladder if you are directly above them, because you can use that to game the AI of slower monsters as it is.

Fair point. Difficult, but I see if stomp and flee drops on ladders is possible.

[st33d]

Small Update 322

I just tested the link for this new build.

"Okay, so the minion should be able to handle throwing weapons now, let's just quickly test that..."

Equip the minion's throwing hand. Press menu. Fwip-BLAM. Run over to pick up the knife from the bloodied remains. It auto-equips back to the minion. Fwip-BLAM. Another kobold out in the darkness meets its end.

That's feature number one.

Feature number two is the dive-nodes. I've added a lattice of diagonal diving nodes for ladder hopping. They caused a lot of issues with the minion tracking the player so the rule sets are quite different now, and the minion won't use dive nodes to keep its distance from the player.

However, monsters will now dive at you, and they will leap from ladders to get you.

The drop off of a ladder tactic has also been added for fleeing and chasing.

Lastly, the bravery stat. Characters with a bravery stat less than 1 that are quicker than their enemy must make a bravery roll after each melee attack. Take note that goblins have a bravery of 0.5. They will often stab at you now and then make a run for it.

Oh - and I forgot one incredibly fun to test thing:

If a character throws a weapon towards enemy's face and fails their hit roll - the enemy catches it, equips it, and most monsters like to throw it back straight away.

But you might get lucky if you stay facing it. You might catch it back.

[baconman]

Intriguing twists... hmmm...

[mokesmoe]

This doesn't look right:

(Seed: 3355980515. Bottom left of first level.)

I noticed the diagonal lines not generating in a lot of places, not just here.


Also: AI nodes on the far left side of the testbed don't show up. They still work though.

[st33d]

The conditions for dive nodes are that there is open space above and below to begin with and open space above on the way down.

They're really designed for open spaces and mokesmoe's ladder hopping scenario.

I've actually found that less nodes is always better. AI is about reducing the amount of decisions to one choice. Giving AI more choice doesn't make it better, it makes it worse.