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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsRed Rogue
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st33d
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« Reply #880 on: April 21, 2012, 06:27:36 PM »

Might be a "new game" issue. I've noticed it going into the test bed. I'll put it on my bugs list.
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Nate_G
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« Reply #881 on: April 22, 2012, 08:56:37 AM »

I think you should just disable turning off the music personally  Wink
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Overpass
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« Reply #882 on: April 23, 2012, 02:11:52 AM »

This game is super polished so I am going to have to dig deep for things like make me feel otherwise. =3


General negative thoughts as they come/happen to me.
1. I died to a troll. then it took about 15 mins to bring me back to the main menu because I didn't know I had to look in the menu for that option.
2. my minion is basically suicidal and so I can't trust him/her with items, and I have no way to reviving him (till late-mid/late game)
3. No options for music/sound effects/on/off in main menu, only in game
4. Screwing over yourself or equipment by getting a bad random from identifying them makes me sad as sometimes I'm more curious about the lore/item info, but am punished for finding out. (seen in many rouge-type games, so I've come to terms with it)
5. My menu got stuck (can't move/select things) only happened twice though, and fixed itself by going out and in the menu twice and hitting every movement key at once.
6. Music came back on even when I set it to off in the menu
7. turning into a warewolf is super annoying, eating a null rune should cure (polymorph) in my logic, but doesn't T_T
8. I find myself afk waiting for my health to return knowing the hearts become pretty rare. without affecting the balance a speed up time or "sleep/make camp" function with a drawback would be cool. I understand the feeling of impatience might be on purpose, but if so it doesn't seem to have any other effect on me except being annoying
9. The game could do well with a few more music tracks. "Dark dungeon" gets a bit repetitive after your 4th death or so.
10. animation of Leveling up takes a second too long in my opinion, I know it's helpful to kill monsters, though when playing a new game it kinda makes me wish I could just skip it considering I'll be doing it 19 more times.
11. When enchanting; telling what weapon is your main/offhand would be great =]
12. Bad guy mosh pits at the bottom of the level seem to happen the more you explore, this is bothersome as it drastically slows down the game taking out one at a time, or worse yet you fall into the pit without knowing about their party and get destroyed by them.
13. putting on a face confused me when I first did it, at first I thought it was all just visual (like all the other armor) then I found out it gives the stats as well. a little message saying"You are starting to feel like a "____" or even "you have been transformed into a "___" by the mask!" would hint this change.
14 You can barely tell the difference of using a bunch of light runes, light barely feels like a resource right now as you get so much of it by default and even more from just a single rune.
15. I wish I had a connection to "skeleton guy as a character, starting off I never give him any attention or give him items, and just let him die when it's his time, as I know he's on death watch 24/7 as a sidekick and I don't care about him as a character to bother keeping him alive otherwise.
16. Hearts becomes extremely rare mid game...is this intentional? I'm noticing that even if I dont use hearts I'm noticing a large drop in their presence.
17. On my first play I didn't understand running into enemies attacked them, because my skeleton would kill them for me, I actually didn't figure it out till skeleman died 4 levels down.
18. Comparing equipment is confusing, how do I know a fedora lvl 1 is better or worse than a top hat lvl 1 without literally writing down the math for both after using up two runes, then solving the math, (for maximum sad face: I then find out one of them has a bad random rune on them from identifying them, making all the math worthless)
19. Does my equipment level up as I use it? or only with runes? I was confused first hour or so in.
20. Searching feels a bit too long like (.3 seconds too long), considering I do it about six times each level with no negative side effect besides draining patience. =P
21. If in your first few levels you don't get a heal rune on your armor you will have a very hard game coming up.


Art!:

1. A storyline would be cool to encourage me to keep moving on and on. or even just dialog from skele/rouge
2. Please give skeleton man some cool dialog so I can love him as much as he loves me, as in my head skeleton man is very polite and has a secret unrequited love for the rouge xD (this kinda isn't a joke, I wonder if anyone else pretended this too lol).
3. A bit more red accent on the rouge would be nice to tell her apart from the rest of the world, also a bit of red on all the monster skins when you transform would be a great touch so when I polymorph I can see what ones mine.
4. The area "sewers" looks pretty much identical to the "dungeon" level

Positive things:
1. I love skeleton man and red rouge art wise.
2. I find the rune system very addicting and I love finding the runes I want.
3. I love that throwing my weapon automatically picks it up and places it into the throw slot <3
4. I highly enjoy the secrets in the game, they really enhance the gameplay as you learn about them.
5. If skeleton man would stay alive I find him as a sidekick interesting gameplay wise, I would send him down and then chain stun a mob and feel incredible, or send him out to tank what I was scared of.
6. Turning into mobs reminds me of Majora's Mask transforming, if only the effects of the masks where a bit more noticeable, most mobs have very simple mask effects
7. The lighting and animations on everything are clean and polished looking =O


Overall:
I felt like I actually wanted to play this when I was alone after trying it out for a bit, and in the back of my head I feel like I want more from it then what might be in the game (story wise), the difficulty is unforgiving but fair as a rouge-like. As a rouge-like it's a game that got me both excited and frustrated as I played, but never stopped being fun and inviting to try again. I'd love to play more, so send me all your new versions, on the final build I may just do a let's test of this for fun. =]


« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 03:45:18 AM by Pandara_RA! » Logged

st33d
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« Reply #883 on: April 23, 2012, 02:54:56 AM »

Thanks for this.

A lot of it seems to be down to no tutorial. I think I'll need to build a pre-dungeon area.

Light I can't fix. The code is near impossible to balance beyond where it currently is without wrecking everything (believe me I've tried). That will have to remain a weakness in the system.

The fuck you factor on Identify I can relate to. I think I will change it to add random bonuses to existing enchantments on an item.

The minion can be recovered from level 5 onwards. He's intentionally weak, but I guess I can give him a mild buff. He does actually talk to you, the writing on the wall you can press up to read. His story is told chronologically from level 20 to level 1. Again, tutorial stuff.

Null for polymorph is a good idea, will take a lot of work to implement though.

Sleeping is a very good idea. I can prevent sleep in areas with monsters. This will solve the AFK heal issue. I can give the player a slow heal when sleeping - this may change the balance a lot.

More music in a Flash game is asking for a bit much. It was free and it takes up a shitload of bandwidth.

There is a sort equipment option, I may change this to auto-sort on picking up any new equipment if people don't mind and allow them to turn it off.

There are some things that are supposed to be fuck-you, but not too much fuck-you. Mob quantities I feel I haven't gotten right because in the original Rogue you rarely fight packs of monsters. Hearts I reduced because someone complained about their frequency, with a sleep mechanic it may not be necessary to add more though.

Bugs I'm working on right now.

Thanks again, this was valuable information.
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Pandara_RA!
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« Reply #884 on: April 23, 2012, 03:36:19 AM »


More music in a Flash game is asking for a bit much. It was free and it takes up a shitload of bandwidth.


That's it, now I'm going to demand you get a full soundtrack...and have it orchestrated just for that comment =P

Oh I totally understand actually, I just list all the possible changes I can possibly think of while pretending I don't have any knowledge of the limitations and issues that a game might have, just not limit the honest stream of conscience thoughts. So my comments hopefully may very well be of something you might see on a consumer ask for.

Quote
There is a sort equipment option, I may change this to auto-sort on picking up any new equipment if people don't mind and allow them to turn it off.

I knew about the sort function, though thought it only knew the stats of the items I identified first, because it would have only the knowledge I did, but knowing this now, I can't see a use for identify in it's current "gamble state" I love the change for only positive effects on the items! That you suggested.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 03:41:37 AM by Pandara_RA! » Logged

st33d
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« Reply #885 on: April 23, 2012, 03:48:27 AM »

No worries, I thought it was pretty fair considering how unfinished the game is.

I really like the idea of trying to sleep and getting woken up by monster voices now. I'm a bit stumped on how to avoid it being abused. I've kept the food clock out of this for some time now and I really don't want to complicate things. I might introduce nightmares after the dungeons zone perhaps - you randomly wake up to a horror chasing you.
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Pandara_RA!
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« Reply #886 on: April 23, 2012, 04:29:14 AM »

No worries, I thought it was pretty fair considering how unfinished the game is.

I really like the idea of trying to sleep and getting woken up by monster voices now. I'm a bit stumped on how to avoid it being abused. I've kept the food clock out of this for some time now and I really don't want to complicate things. I might introduce nightmares after the dungeons zone perhaps - you randomly wake up to a horror chasing you.

I think sleeping is something you should feel like you are trying to "get away with" heres a thought.

Sleeping is going to be scary in my idea. your vision turns to 0 light then if any remaining monsters are in the level a few will be teleported  between X to Y units closer to your location so as you sleep/heal the monsters will progressively be getting closer and closer, with the only hint of how close they really are being the sounds/text. if the level is cleared already there will be no issue as I would have afked all day there anyways before moving on.

This will have an effects on the player
1. They will learn to set up camp as far away from combat as possible before sleeping
2. They will not sleep near enemies as an abuse to kill them bit by bit with the quick kill->rest option

Healing runes are what power the rest and influence it. Players will still use healing runes to top off hp in high health, use items for low health situations and use camping for mid range health situations.

Sleeping with poison will kill/hurt over time.

if you want a turbo cool part of it resting can be used as a writers tool used to trigger Nightmare events or dialog from the character learning about their past

Second idea


I call this the classic rouge situation, YEAH free heal all you want, except heres the deal,
1. X more enemies will be spawned in the level
2.the monsters in the level all gain +1 level equip or if they have no weapon/armor they have a chance of gaining it.

third simple idea

1. Standing still raises your regen current regen by X% every 2 seconds (so I still afk heal, it just doesn't take 7 years to do it)
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 04:40:44 AM by Pandara_RA! » Logged

st33d
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« Reply #887 on: April 23, 2012, 04:40:28 AM »

Hah hah, I could explain the monsters getting near by the rogue having a particularly loud snore.
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« Reply #888 on: April 23, 2012, 05:33:22 AM »


More music in a Flash game is asking for a bit much. It was free and it takes up a shitload of bandwidth.


That's it, now I'm going to demand you get a full soundtrack...and have it orchestrated just for that comment =P


I don't know if you've been deep enough to reach the later tracks, but if not the whole EP is free at www.icefishing.gallardosound.com if you want to hear the others Smiley [/shameless-self-promoting]
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Overpass
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Pandara_RA!
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« Reply #889 on: April 23, 2012, 05:47:25 AM »


More music in a Flash game is asking for a bit much. It was free and it takes up a shitload of bandwidth.


That's it, now I'm going to demand you get a full soundtrack...and have it orchestrated just for that comment =P


I don't know if you've been deep enough to reach the later tracks, but if not the whole EP is free at www.icefishing.gallardosound.com if you want to hear the others Smiley [/shameless-self-promoting]


I actually have been all the way to the bottom now, (which is why it took a day to get the feedback in).

the tracks in style seem to get progressively more jagged/scary as you descend, which fits great for the game, I guess what I'm talking about is that the music used shares themes in the previous tracks, so they blend together as you play appearing as a single long track due to the long distance in time between each track switch (many levels). Your brain when listening to long tracks will try to bridge them together, much like how it interprets words when reading even when scrambled.

"i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno’t mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghi t pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! if you can raed tihs forwrad it."

To be short:
1. Quality of music +1
2. playtime distance Distance between tracks -1

so no tea no shade meant against the music itself. if anything I'm indirectly and  unrealistically asking for more of it.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 05:52:44 AM by Pandara_RA! » Logged

st33d
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« Reply #890 on: April 23, 2012, 05:50:29 AM »

I've been thinking that the time it takes to traverse a zone is perhaps too long.

I could tackle this by reducing the standard size of dungeons, but I know some people prefer bigger dungeons. Thoughts?
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« Reply #891 on: April 23, 2012, 05:56:11 AM »

I've been thinking that the time it takes to traverse a zone is perhaps too long.

I could tackle this by reducing the standard size of dungeons, but I know some people prefer bigger dungeons. Thoughts?

At one point I wrote down under feedback that I thought the levels became much too large as I progressed onward too fast, but then removed that thought. After thinking that the game was meant to become that large by design.

Now that you mention it though I felt that the size got really large really fast.
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st33d
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« Reply #892 on: April 23, 2012, 06:00:06 AM »

I think I may be able to do both by scaling down the current level size and throwing in a big level once per zone. Maybe a big level just before you change zone...
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Pandara_RA!
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« Reply #893 on: April 23, 2012, 06:17:08 AM »

I think I may be able to do both by scaling down the current level size and throwing in a big level once per zone. Maybe a big level just before you change zone...

with a boss whos got that phat loot? *dreams*
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st33d
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« Reply #894 on: April 23, 2012, 06:21:03 AM »

I was planning on unique characters appearing in the game (based mostly on my gaming history and other things). So yes, a selection of champions would work well.
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« Reply #895 on: April 23, 2012, 10:18:49 AM »

You know looking at Pandara_RA!'s complaints about the "skeleton guy" is kind of amusing to me, but understandable. The whole story behind him is one of those things that isn't at all obvious unless you connect a lot of scattered clues, but I like it that way. If I have one complaint about his character it's that some of the writing and stuff sort of makes him look like kind of a dick Tongue I kind of think a intro and even tutorial would sort of make the game less mysterious and make uncovering stuff less fun. Though, perhaps a small area for the basic controls and letting the wall messages explain the rest is enough.

Also, on the subject of making red stand out more, her sash is red anyway, so why not make it red in dungeons too?
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st33d
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« Reply #896 on: April 23, 2012, 01:08:52 PM »

Red sash would be fair - and consistent.

@'s messages are a first draft. I think I should pay attention to rewrites carefully because it's supposed to be telling a story backwards. I'll get some people to proof read.

I am loathe to have tutorial text floating over everything in the dungeons. I was toying with the idea of a tutorial area where unintuitive skills like reading, actions and fighting can be learned without interfering with entering the dungeons. I was considering it be the farm where her and @ live.
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Pandara_RA!
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« Reply #897 on: April 23, 2012, 02:56:11 PM »

You know looking at Pandara_RA!'s complaints about the "skeleton guy" is kind of amusing to me, but understandable. The whole story behind him is one of those things that isn't at all obvious unless you connect a lot of scattered clues, but I like it that way. If I have one complaint about his character it's that some of the writing and stuff sort of makes him look like kind of a dick Tongue I kind of think a intro and even tutorial would sort of make the game less mysterious and make uncovering stuff less fun. Though, perhaps a small area for the basic controls and letting the wall messages explain the rest is enough.

Also, on the subject of making red stand out more, her sash is red anyway, so why not make it red in dungeons too?

The issue I had is that I never found out skeleman was the one who wrote on the walls till the forums told me so, how did everyone come to that conclusion? For me the walls read off like a previous adventurer that wasn't connected to my story.
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st33d
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« Reply #898 on: April 23, 2012, 11:57:46 PM »

Yeah - it's supposed to be a slow reveal. The messages become more about the minion escaping from the dungeon the further you get down. There's also other clues by using the identify rune.

Bug fix 364

Fixed the sound bug.
AI paths have been redesigned to solve several navigation issues.
Minion stats have been boosted a little and his bravery dropped to make him value his life.
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Pandara_RA!
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« Reply #899 on: April 24, 2012, 12:47:50 AM »

Yeah - it's supposed to be a slow reveal. The messages become more about the minion escaping from the dungeon the further you get down. There's also other clues by using the identify rune.

Bug fix 364

Fixed the sound bug.
AI paths have been redesigned to solve several navigation issues.
Minion stats have been boosted a little and his bravery dropped to make him value his life.

after reading enough about how backstabbing hurt things, I stopped bothering to read them assuming they were just game hints.
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