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[Seth]

This does not seem as useful to me!

And it seems infinitely more useful than, say, discussing the morality of making games that force players to do immoral things, to me. There are several other topics I also don't think are worth discussing. Crazy! So how about, instead of attempting to declare this or that discussion as ended or useless, people who are not interested in a given discussion stay away from that discussion and just let it go on or end on its own?

I agree with Gnarf, for once!

[Gnarf]

Yeah, he's not very good at it.  Or maybe he means what he says, which is admittedly more worrisome.

I mostly mean what I say. It's a little more nuanced than how I put it.

[brog]

making games that force players to do immoral things

This is a hilarious idea for a game. 

Edmund? I don't think hilarious is the word.

I was too subtle with my deliberate misinterpretation there.  I was coming down on the other side of the avatar/player distinction, guys.
Unless everyone's deliberately misinterpreting me.  That'd serve me right, dammit.

[Anthony Flack]

Yeah, raping a sprite isn't immoral. Somebody make a game where you have to make a real person cry.

[Mipe]

Can we at least agree that videogames are entertainment?

[Perrin]

Can we at least agree that videogames are entertainment?

Isn't that going to create 6 more pages where two people argue about what their definition is of entertainment is and why theirs is *more* right?

[Gnarf]

Yeah, like, shit, man. There's nothing in the world that worries me more than the idea of some thread going on for like over a page. Everyone just make banal statements that are not worth discussing instead.

I dislike one thing and I like another thing. Hamsters are hamsters.

[Eric McQuiggan]

Fuck you guys again!

I've tried to re-rail the thread, but you jerks just want to wank on about how much fun it is to derail threads.

Videogames are entertainment, except the 'serious games'(serious in terms of title, not feelings evoked), they're for learning.

[Marmaduke Slam]

I thought it was a very interesting and useful article, I've lately been liking things that provoke thought about video games and game design. A great way to get thinking is to have something you disagree with and form your own opinion, which is what this article has done for sure.

Thoughts about video games are good but I don't know about arguments about semantics.

I would think going into things as discussions rather than arguments would be a good idea, so you can make progress rather than argue two differing viewpoints into the ground and then incite the rage of the Anti-Semantics TIGpolice.

[Eric McQuiggan]

The importance of semantics is greatly increased by everyone's denial of the importance of semantics.

Shits gone full circle!

[Marmaduke Slam]

I think arguments about semantics are a waste of time because from what I've seen it just ends up with two people elaborating on essentially different definitions of words and concepts and brings things to a grinding halt, if that's not sorted out you get a whole branch of things based on mis-assumptions and miscommunication.

It'd be a lot more productive to know that you're trying to argue about two completely different things, or that you could actually be agreeing, it's just a difference of definition (an unsaid definition) that is holding things up.

I think the difference is that an argument is different views all trying to convince each other whereas a discussion entails more an exchange of ideas from people that try to have as open a viewpoint as possibly.

[Eric McQuiggan]

I find people are too quick to dismiss things that are brought up, "are Videogames games?" really it doesn't matter but what does matter is that people think and talk about it, what if someone involved in the discussion thinks about it and has a bizarre epiphany that what he was working on could be so much more, then we get progress.

When others ride in and thread shit, well, not only is it lame, it just shows a lack of maturity. If you are just trying to hold up a mirror showing people how silly they are being or whatever stupid justification you muster, you are just wasting everyone's time.

[moi]

Paul Eres has left the building

[Alevice]

Paul Eres has left the building