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[Renton]

I hate POWDER. Not because it's a bad game, no. It's a good game. I hate it because I suck at it and the only time I played it I got killed by a fucking kiwi. But I supposed it could've been worse. It could've been a kiwi fruit.

[C.A. Sinner]

I dunno about Netack DS, but Nethack on the iPhone has great controls (by Nethack port standards of course)

[John Lee]

My friend plays POWDER quite often, and one time ended up with a +7 flaming holy poison silver spear of digging. He ended up hacking through dungeon walls with abandon. Amusing to watch.

...SO HOW BOUT THEM DS GAMES GUYZ?

SCRIBBLENAUTS IS FUN IF YOU DIDNT KNOW

[C.A. Sinner]

SCRIBBLENAUTS IS FUN IF YOU DIDNT KNOW

DAMN STRAIGHT!
MARIO N LUIGI BOWZERZ INSIDE STOREY IS LIKE SO CASH!

[moonmagic]

I love Powder. I go through long stretches of time where it is the only DS game that gets any attention. I also appreciate that its depth is somewhat adjusted for handheld play.

It's definitely a different animal than Shiren, though. Starting a new game of Powder is not nearly as overwhelming as building up a good set of equipment in Shiren. I do also feel that Shiren gets scarier faster than Powder. That could just be because I'm used to the Hack-y kind of dungeon creatures.

I really like Bangai-O Spirits, but I prefer the Dreamcast Bangai-O for the ridiculous boss dialogue. And the Game Over / Continue screen.

If you've played Osu! Tatakae! Ouenden! and not Elite Beat Agents, I would recommend playing both. The stories are totally different and almost more bizarre, because they are attuned to supposed "American" sensibilities.

Devil Survivor is kicking my ass right now. I'm stuck on the Beldr fight.

[C.A. Sinner]

I really like Bangai-O Spirits, but I prefer the Dreamcast Bangai-O for the ridiculous boss dialogue. And the Game Over / Continue screen.

The thing that's unique about Spirits is that it's a "casual hardcore" game, i.e. it can (and is designed to) be played in short bursts, but it's still really challenging and requires you to get in-depth with the game mechanics if you want to succeed. I wish there were more games like this around.

[MisterX]

There is a lot of talk about how extraordinarily difficult Bangai-O Spirits is. Man, was I disappointed :/ It's a very good game and I still like it, but I was highly surprised by how I could beat most levels in just a single try. I'm certainly not a hardcore player, I usually give up in frustration when trying to play a Nintendo Hard game. But, I guess compared to the majority of the DS audience I'm still quite hardcore. Though, all that only counts for the stages in which you don't encounter Longai-O. I still don't really have a clue how to safely defeat those. And that one stage in which you encounter 3 or 4 of them? Sheesh, never beat it. And the weapons are sweet, but I thought that especially the variety of the EX-weapons and their combinations would be more diverse. I really dislike that the shots which are supposed to just bounce of walls also home in on enemies, nearly just like the actual homing missiles.

Anyway, it's still a very, very cool game, of course. It's very unique and unusual, but still very well done and polished. I just think it's not all it could've been.

[C.A. Sinner]

Well, I guess it's not 8bit "one wrong step and you die" difficult. There's a learning curve and once you figured everything out, you should be good to go. That's why I was talking about familiarizing yourself with the game mechanics.

For me "hardcore" in games doesn't necessarily mean difficulty. It's more related to the fact that these games ask you to "put something into them" in order to get something out, unlike 90% of modern AAA games where simple button mashing is usually enough to win.

[moonmagic]

I agree that Bangai-O demands relatively precise execution of a couple of key mechanics, and that those mechanics involve timing and risk-taking, rather than just holding the button down and getting health when you need it.

I think of it as a hardcore game. I understand why the DS version is in the format that it is in. I just miss the crazars talkings.

[Don Andy]

I'd like to mention the game Theresia, a first-person horror adventure (mostly point and click stuff). The interface can be a bit cumbersome and it takes pixel-hunting to a whole new level, but it really got the creepy atmosphere down.

It also has you constantly on your toes since this game has an amount of traps that'd make the Saw guy envious. Basically every object you can interact with can potentially hurt you by means of knifes, needles, electricity or other nasty things.

The puzzles in the game are relatively easy, but that's evened out by the fact that every puzzle can potentially hurt/kill you.