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[Paul Eres]

all of the 2d zelda games mix perspective. for more info on this, see the comments to this entry:

http://rinku.livejournal.com/1730023.html

it has picture illustrations, etc.

[CiroContinisio]

I see. Your game has very good graphics, I like them, but I can't help but think the same here: the mix of perspectives bothers me.
For the Zelda games, you're right: the first Zelda did a lot of this, but of course as one of your reader pointed out it's because of the low resolution. They could've done better, but at the time it was acceptable. Now it's not.

I know that you're making it a style, but I think people will not understand this, or maybe don't appreciate the choice.
Looking at your game, I think that it's more a matter of need than of choice. Your characters are going to rotate, so it's easier to pretend that they are top-down. This is understandable, but then they will look a bit strange.

This is something that happened to me yesterday night... I was trying to 3Dfy my game graphics for a banner, but they only looked strange. In my game, I'd like to have a 3dfied perspective like this (click):



But the fact is that I should have to create animations for every angle, and this is not feasible. Now, it looks like this:



And I'm going to keep it like this because it's more readable (I already have problems in this respect).

Anyway, Saturated Dreamers looks very good so I'm going to forgive the perspective!

[Paul Eres]

it's not just zelda1 though -- even recent 2d zelda games like the minisch cap used it:



note the top part of the rock cliff is an inverse 3/4 perspective, whereas the rest is 3/4 perspective or top down, and the player sprite is upright.



again, upright sprites, the rest 3/4, and the bridge is top down.



again, notice how the bottom of the walls in dungeons use an inverse 3/4 perspective, as if the player were fish-eyed and could see both the bottom wall and the top wall from the same angle.

i think you're underestimating how often even modern 2d games mix perspective.

[CiroContinisio]

You know what: you are right! I underestimated that. I didn't remember that this happened so blatantly in a commercial game like Minish Cap.

However, I still don't like it, the rocks can be ok (because they can be slanted towards to bottom actually) but that bridge is terrible. Still, it's a personal opinion.

[rekcah]

I agree with Paul here on the perspective thing, but not only that.....

I noticed the mixing of perspectives in Zelda games as well but, while the game is in motion its not really a big deal. Its only when I'm studying a screen shot that I'm like "LOL thats weird!". Zelda isn't the only game that does it. The old 2D Final Fantasy games did it. The Tales series did it as well. The list goes on.

@CiroContinisio:

Earlier you were quick to say Zelda games never mixed perspectives in the same scene. Again, I think that's because when you're playing the game your brain still understands whats going on despite the mixed perspectives and its not really a problem. But its easy to pick things apart when you're examining a screenshot.

[CiroContinisio]

In fact I already said I never noticed (not that much anyway) because I never stopped to consider those screens.
Still, when I do my own work I try to be coherent, if I can't, I start from scratch and look for another solution*. Sorry but I feel that kind of mix is an error, and also, you can explain it to me, but how about the random person that sees the game? He will think it's an error too.

If that kind of mix served gameplay purposes, then maybe it's ok. But if it's only graphical laziness, (not referred to Paul Eres or Supershigi) then no.

* I remember one of my teachers, in the logo and symbol systems class, that once said: "You can draw 9 symbols in a certain style, and you think they are cool. But if you must make 10, and the 10th can't fit your style, you must start all over again."
This is something that's always in my mind when I create believable worlds, icons, or such.

[Paul Eres]

even classical painters mixed perspective -- not looking realistic isn't an error. the only people i've seen even notice the issue are other game designers or graphic artists, normal people don't even notice it. it's something you have to have special training or be looking for in order to notice: as evidence of this, you said you didn't notice it in the zelda games until i mentioned it, that kind of shows that it doesn't look like an error unless you're thinking about it.

[CiroContinisio]

Yeah but I noticed it in Melolune...
Anyway, we're not going anywhere on this one, let's say it's a matter of taste

[rekcah]

Yeah but I noticed it in Melolune...
Anyway, we're not going anywhere on this one, let's say it's a matter of taste

HEY MAN!! WE'RE NOT DONE BASHING YOU YET!......... 

LOL j/k.. sorry i couldnt resist! 

[Hockey kid]

I love this game, the graphics are so jRPG and I love jRPG's!

[Paul Eres]

Yeah but I noticed it in Melolune...
Anyway, we're not going anywhere on this one, let's say it's a matter of taste

yeah, but the question is would you have noticed it if it was some rpg by square you were playing, and you weren't staring at a screenshot being asked for feedback -- i think it's partially taste but also partially that.

[st33d]

I tried to extract the IGF Demo:

Audio\BGM\Laura Shigihara - Ciro.ogg

Extract Failed

 

WinXP - tried several locations, no dice - breaks at the same file.

[Zaphos]

That doesn't happen for me on xp, st33d -- maybe your download got corrupted somehow?  Did you try (clearing your cache and) re-downloading?

[Jonathan]

Laura, I hope you're still working on this!  I haven't seen updates in a while, how's everything going?

[Paul Eres]

she told me on youtube that she was taking a break due to back and neck problems from working at the computer too long, but has resumed work on the game this month -- check my youtube profile for the comment: http://youtube.com/rinkuhero