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[BlueSweatshirt]

Imagine a game where there were virtually no cutscenes. If your player was in the scene, you had total control. Fable 2 tried this, and radically failed. My others have, as well, but also notably screwed up.

I think it's an idea that could add a whole new dimension to storytelling, and it surprises me that game developers haven't looked into it further, albeit a difficult concept to implement.

What are your thoughts on this subject?

[Zest]

We've done a lot of discussions on alternate ways of telling stories in games; here's one such thread.

[John Nesky]

You make it sound like such a thing is rare, or doesn't even exist.

I'm guessing you're referring to recent mainstream games?

[TOM SENNETT]

Half-Life.

Thread over.

[shig]

Half-life is full of cutscenes, except you can control the camera in them.

[Pishtaco]

Imagine a game where there were virtually no cutscenes. If your player was in the scene, you had total control. Fable 2 tried this, and radically failed. My others have, as well, but also notably screwed up.

I think it's an idea that could add a whole new dimension to storytelling, and it surprises me that game developers haven't looked into it further, albeit a difficult concept to implement.

What are your thoughts on this subject?

That a lot of games don't have cutscenes. For example, many strategy games. In this case, the player generally is making his own story. But I wouldn't call this a "new dimension to storytelling", since it isn't new. Maybe you need to narrow down what you're asking a bit.

[C.A. Sinner]

Half-life is full of cutscenes, except you can control the camera in them.

That's only partially true. Half-Life (the first one at least) lets you ignore lots of important story dialogue/"cutscenes".

[Gimym TILBERT]

What do you call a cinematic? do you think that dialogue sequence could be mark as such?
I mean if it as some elaborate camera work it became apparent, should we have no dialogue?

But the real problem is the function, cinematics serves as exposition both factual and emotional, the question is how we can "expose" in term of gameplay.

Game like half life just side step the problem, by not interupting the control but the problem remain, you still doing "nothing" in terms of gameplay, you are just watching.

The best borderline exemple i can bring is one of the most discuss cinématics in video games history: the death of aeris.

It was done very cleverly, it was a climax of build up by gameplay. Before this sequence you had many mini games or gameplay sequences (protect your friend while they escape, mini dating) that build character, relation and set the stake for later. There is one sequence that is half "cinematics" where you fight alongside sephiroth without controling him, you do mere double digit damage while he is doing full damage quadruple nine digit, establishing him as the strong character he was (at the moment of the game he his the main character hero and model, and he is presented as such for the player). And when the moment before the famous cinematics, you have a clever use of the famous "Jrpg false choice" moment, your character HAVE to kill aerith for a certain reason, but she's a friend and a valuable ally (gameplay wise also for the player), the STAKE make it clear that you have no option left, that "choice" is then use to show the reluctance and the hesitation of the hero to carry the task (and the player also don't want to do that). When finally the player choose yes, it have to move toward aerith... only to be rob of that task by "the pretty white hair boy of service" sephiroth. The emotional timing was great thanks to a carefully build up, the cinematic tops that emotion with a sentiment of FATE. Most of the exposition was through gameplay, here the cinematics serve as a conclusion. Here gameplay was use as exposition as BEHAVIOUR rather than mecanics.

Not that FF7 is the epitome of writing or story, or even character building, but it did many things right, both in term of use of cinematics and gameplay to strengthen the narrative. But it also have done many things wrong in both. We still live in the legacy left by it, but only with the wrong part, and other FF didn't follow the good trend either...

Another game that have done that right is zelda majora's mask...

[C.A. Sinner]

Zelda in general has very few cutscenes, but it doesn't have what I would call an interesting story either.

[unsilentwill]

Cut scenes are literally that, they cut into the game play to show a scene. Most of the time they are cinematic, as in, cinema. You watch a movie, instead of playing a game. Or, they could be done with text, having you essentially read a play, instead of playing a game.

Both of these are effective, but don't showcase the kinds of interactions that can be done only in games. The thing is, how you do hold someone's attention to a scene without forcing them to watch it? With cut scenes, the player must invest time and emotion to care about what's going in the story. That's not necessarily a difficult task, but there's not much of a precedent, I don't think, as it would make the story way less linear giving the play the option to basically pick and choose story points.

It's definitely something worth seeking, and I hope to see this kind of storytelling in games.

[Gimym TILBERT]

Zelda in general has very few cutscenes, but it doesn't have what I would call an interesting story either.

That's true they are "inherently" not interesting "blond white kid save the world by beating the black nasty one".
But there is still some good trick in the craft that we could leverage.
The fact you think there is not many cutscene is telling about that, i find the game have PLENTY, they are just well time and meaningful...

By the way, majora's mask telling of his character struggle with the fate of moon falling have blew me away... it was interesting as you are drag deeper within their story and start to see connection within each character motive and action, their relation and the kind... it was simply not expected... and zelda game are master at crafting ambiance over story.
(That said the twilight one was pretty boring, empty and forced)

[SirNiko]

My personal opinion is that a game developer should strive to have as few cutscenes in his or her game as possible. If you discover a story element that simply can't be told without a cutscene, then it's probably better to err on the side of the game rather than the story.

Final Fantasy X was the epitome of a game that was ruined by cinematics. Rather than drawing me in, I was turned off by the dialogue, because it advanced so painfully slowly, and had little to nothing to do with my thoughts as a player. Tidus was daydreaming about Yuna while I was thinking about where I was going to get some more ability spheres. There was such a huge disconnect between the game mechanics and the story!

On the other hand, Metroid Prime 1 managed to connect the game and the player. All my gauges and maps were in Samus's HUD. I was seeing what she was seeing. We had the same goal: to kill the aliens and save the planet, since she never expressed a contrary opinion. When I scanned a log to read about what's going on, when I was done reading it, so was Samus. The story was simple, but I felt I was discovering the pirate's secrets myself, not listening to Samus talk about it in a cinematic after the boss.

Simply ditching the cinematics is not enough, but it's certainly a step in the right direction.

-SirNiko

[derrickfreeland]

I was pretty impressed by Mass Effect's approach to this problem.  Most of its cinematics were dialogue scenes where the player had a large amount of control.  Come to think of it, I think Don Bluth's 'Dragons Lair' was entirely cut scenes that you had control of.  It was on the arcade a long time ago, if any one remembers such things.

[C.A. Sinner]

and zelda game are master at crafting ambiance over story.

This.
Also, I still think the gameplay-to-cutscene ratio in Zelda is generally pretty low.

Tidus was daydreaming about Yuna while I was thinking about where I was going to get some more ability spheres. There was such a huge disconnect between the game mechanics and the story!

This is bothering me about the whole Final Fantasy series, and to a certain extent JRPGs in general. The gameplay and story have very little relation to each other. I think Metroid Prime is a very good example of a total integration of gameplay and story, as are System Shock 2 and Shadow Of The Colossus. Oddly enough, none of these games are particularly cutscene-heavy.

[Captain_404]

I'd be much more interested in a game that used cutscenes correctly rather than avoided them entirely.

Games are, in part, about the relationship between internalization and action. Internalization is the process of figuring out where you are in the game and what exactly is going on. Action is, of course, actually doing things in the game. I see people usually arguing that games should not have cutscenes because they are not gameplay, ie, they have no action. However, I believe that before any action can take place in a game internalization needs to happen.

The very first thing you have to do when you play a game is figure out the controls, there is no way at all for you to interact with the game until you do that. Obviously, this is a form of figuring out where you are, and what you are doing. It's internalization. Only once you've built up enough understanding about the game can you begin to move around and take action.


For the sake of the argument, let's say that a cutscene is any time the game takes control out of the player's hands entirely. This forces the player to stop acting and return to their own thoughts. Couldn't that be used in a better manner? If a cutscene is a more intentional choice, placed in order to bring the player back to their original processes of internalization rather than to wrap up the end of a level, it could be very effective.


So yeah, cutscenes are generally pretty bad, but why not focus on trying to make them good instead of doing away with them entirely?