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[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Remakes in general for the most part have a person's permission. But yes, I also feel this way about unauthorized remakes. And I say this having done one myself without permission: http://zelda.captainn.net/fan_gam_zme.html

[Xion]

Well I don't really think permission would or should be required or desired, since the game being made has no affiliation with the game being demade, by rule of the compo: it's a bootleg. It's a demake. That pretty much means the characters will be different, the gameplay will be different, and the game will be different. Are you really gonna go to ubisoft and ask before you demake Assassin's Creed into "Arabian Ninja, the stealth-based Zelda-like for the NES?" It's like a distant relative of fangames or something, with even less relation. No one asks permission for fangames.

Who is Alan Moore?

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Alan Moore is the guy who made Watchmen -- he was discussed a bit in the Watchmen trailer thread on this forum.

Also, to be clear, it's not the legal stuff that bothers me. Even if there were no such thing as copyright, and piracy were completely legal, I still think it'd be rude to mess with someone's work without their permission. Some people are touchy about that, it gets under their skin, even though most (including myself) would be fine with anything being done with their creations. And I don't like the idea of doing something which could potentially deeply bother someone without asking them first.

[Melly]

I believe a demake would basically be classified as parody. However, part of the rules will be that you must change any recognizeable names, symbols, etc from your game. The game would also be made in wildly different engines than the original, and while the gameplay would attempt to emulate the original's it would undoubtely become different as well. And it'd be adviseable for people to not outright mention that they're demaking X game, and let the player figure out for themselves.

However, I'm going to make some research into especially butthurt game companies (all of them pretty much are, but some are more so) that people should probably think twice before using one of their games as template.

One I'm sure people should probably stay away from is Square-Enix.

The other thing is that it's not a matter of not respecting the original creator. We're actually exalting the original work in a way by using it as a source of ideas. People who get so upset about people creating completely new work (like, created from scratch) based on their stuff are foolish, especially since something like that would actually make the original work known for more people.

But yeah, you can go ahead and ask if you want, obviously. Just don't expect someone in any of those big companies to listen to you.

[moi]

Games are works of art.
As soon as you release a game you should expect it to be copied, plagiarized, ripped-off, criticized,ostracized,misunderstood, disrespected, bought off, sold out,stolen, bargained,admired, disregarded,amplified, cloned, turned into a trend, burned,......
There is no such thing as "respect" for a work of art.
 

[PaulMorel]

HIJACKERS!!

Anyway, back to the subject at hand...

I'm thinking about doing a Japanese sex game version of Puzzle Quest.  Of course, to do this, I would need a talented artist.  Would anyone be interested in drawing scantily clad anime chicks for this game?

[FARTRON]

This may easily end up another project I don't finish, but I think mine will be called caRteL.

Also, on rinku's point, I don't think Alan Moore would care. He makes heavy use of derivative characters, artwork and plot lines in his work. But he brings something new into the mix which is his own style and his own artistic message. I don't think his opposition to the invariably bad movies being made of his work translates to this situation.

"Plagiarism is necessary. Progress implies it"

[Aik]

If anyone's serious about writing a game for the Analytical Engine (Babbage's computer): http://www.fourmilab.ch/babbage/contents.html
There are two emulators for it on that page.
I also have some research papers describing how it works and how to program for it, though I sure as hell don't understand them :p

NFI how you'd actually write a *game* though. The output isn't exactly geared for it :p Still, if anyone is this hardcore, they should get points for effort

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Games are works of art.
As soon as you release a game you should expect it to be copied, plagiarized, ripped-off, criticized,ostracized,misunderstood, disrespected, bought off, sold out,stolen, bargained,admired, disregarded,amplified, cloned, turned into a trend, burned,......
There is no such thing as "respect" for a work of art.
 

I think that just because it's inevitable that something that gets seen by enough people would be the victim of disrespect doesn't justify that disrespect. The same could be said of any type of fame: if you're famous, you should expect to be criticized by some, and made the butt of jokes and mocked. But that doesn't justify such behavior.

[moi]

Yes, disrespect is not justified but it should be expected. We agree on that.
But as Fartron suggests, with the Lautreamont quote, art is made of constant reference to previous sources, and that's what makes art alive.
If every work remained alone untouched in its little corner, art wouldn't evolve.
Also this demake thing isn't made to disrespect. in the contrary, it's a proof of love, an hommage.
And you cannot expect to grant authorisations to the people who make praises to your work. You have to accept them as much as you accept criticism, as much as you accept being ignored.

In cinema this happens all the time, movie spoofs are made and noone asks permissions to the authors. Actually many copyright holders enjoy this as indirect publicity. It's also an acknowledgement that the work has reached reknown.

I think any author who would demand to be asked before a satire is made of their work would look a bit ridiculous to most people's eyes.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Yeah, but even when someone doesn't intend offense, people can be offended. As an example, some women feel complemented by others remarking that they're sexually attractive, and other women feel offended, depending on their personality. Maybe they shouldn't feel offended, but I'd still feel bad if I offended someone through what was intended as a complement.

But anyway, I think I've derailed the thread too much already -- I understand that people disagree with me about this. if others don't want to ask permission first, that's up to them. I'll see if I can get permission if I attempt this contest (which probably limits me to demaking indie games, but that's just as fun).

[moi]

In brazil women are offended if you DON'T whistle at them. I know, that's totally off-topic. And prejudicial.

[moi]

I'll see if I can get permission if I attempt this contest (which probably limits me to demaking indie games, but that's just as fun).

Well non-indie authors, being already totally sold out to the man (the design direction is dictated by suits in many aspects) , they probably won't care. Only interest for the commercial creators is profit.

Double post WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I think it's more complicated than that. For instance, let's say I make a demake of Aquaria or Mr. Robot or Lugaru or Hard Time or whatever without permission. I then post it on my site. Now, people searching for those games might occasionally find my site instead, they might mistakenly believe I'm connected to them in some way, and they might see it as a way of diverting their traffic to my site instead, etc., or maybe I post something those people don't want to be associated with on my site as well, like a hentai game, etc. -- there's all kinds of issues that might arise, it's not a simple "big bucks mentality vs free as a bird mentality" thing. So I'd understand if someone didn't appreciate a satire game.

[Melly]

Personally Rinku, I think you worry far too much.

[policedanceclub]

Personally Rinku, I think you worry far too much.

seconded.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Maybe, but I'd choose worrying too much over being inconsiderate.

[muku]

I can't really understand your worries either.

Now, people searching for those games might occasionally find my site instead, they might mistakenly believe I'm connected to them in some way, and they might see it as a way of diverting their traffic to my site instead, etc.,

Simple. State that you are not affiliated with them, say "this game is a homage to XYZ, get it, it's aweseome," and put up a link. That way you even create publicity for them. I don't think anyone could possibly complain about that.

[increpare]

I can't really understand your worries either.

FWIW, I can.  It can be a big thing for an artist to loose control of their artistic creations, as happens in derivative works and unofficial remakes.  I don't have anything really to add to the discussion, and think that most good points have been made already by both sides.

AAAH these flies they love landing on my feet and calves WHAT'S WITH THAT?!?!?!

[moi]

Your feet and calves must be delicious