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Zack Bell
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« on: November 05, 2011, 10:22:16 AM »

I'm sure that I could find the answer with a few Google searches, but I thought it was an interesting subject, so I'll thought that I would throw it out here anyway.

Is satire within games something that could go against copyright laws? For example, if I have a platformer and I think it would be funny to throw in a boss that resembles Bowser (but I don't call him Bowser), is that a problem?

What about other, more recognizable things? Like an easter egg Portal Gun in a shooter game? If it doesn't "look"  like Valve's, am I fine?

 Well, hello there!
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ink.inc
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2011, 10:25:33 AM »

i see shoutouts to other games and media all the time; i highly doubt the original creator is going to take the time to hunt the easter eggs down and then proceed to sue the developer for whatever pittance they have (assuming they're indie)
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Zack Bell
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2011, 10:30:51 AM »

I thought it would be neat to throw in weapons that resemble different games. I have a slingshot that shoots angry birds and things of that sort.

You should be able to know what they are and recognize them, but because we're basically weaponizing each game, we're not really stealing actually characters/concepts.
 
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RudyTheDev
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2011, 12:59:41 PM »

My guess is companies won't bother to make copyright claims to indies that don't slander their names/trademarks or monetize on their trademarks to a level where it hurts them. In contrast, there is a reason why triple A titles don't make obvious references and if they do you can be almost sure PR went and checked if it's OK. My advice would be "be careful". Technically, you're not "stealing", you are having substantial similarity and would be called for copyright infringement. But, again, I doubt anyone will bother really. There's tons of indie games out there filled with more or less obvious references and they rarely get cease or desists or sued.
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Leroy Binks
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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2011, 02:09:25 PM »

I think this would equate more as a video game "allusion" which I think is perfectly acceptable as long as it is transparent that you are making a reference to a previous work.  "Satire" and spoofing fall more in the category of a full, comedic retelling of the original story in an altered way.

In Marvel: Ultimate Alliance your character is trapped in a game of Pitfall as well as Breakout.  In Fallout 2, there are easter egg random encounters that are nods to everything from Monty Python to Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy to Star Trek and more.  The cheat code from Contra has been used over and over as a nod to the original game, and furthermore some game series actually making references to their earlier versions. 

In my own game, we are putting in an uppercut that looks just like the Mortal Kombat move, and calling it the MK Uppercut. A specific reference that everyone should understand. 

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Alec S.
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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2011, 04:03:26 PM »

I think you're referring to pastiche, parody or, like Leroy said, allusion.  Satire is mocking real life.  Doctor Strangelove, for example, is a work of Satire.

Braid has various pastiches of Super Mario Bros (the enemies, for example, are based on the enemies from Mario, and you end levels by meeting something that looks like Yoshi.)



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mikejkelley
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« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2011, 02:58:57 PM »

Copyright laws make explicit exemptions for parody. What you're doing is not satire. Also, satire is not qualified by RL reference. "Allusions," which is what you seem to want to implement, are not protected. They are very much copyright infringing.

And BTW, it doesn't matter if it's "for profit" or "in gratis (free)." It's still illegal. Claims to the contrary are the biggest, most ridiculous, irrational, internet copyright lore out there. It enrages me.

For an element to be considered protected as parody, the portrayal should be critical of the work being referenced.

That being said, could you get away with breaking the law? Would the aggrieved party prosecute? Who knows.

Here's an idea; ask the IP owner's permission.
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mcc
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« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2011, 07:45:15 PM »

If you are making free indie games, you're sort of in a zone where it doesn't matter. You will all the time see games not just pasticheing or parodying or making callouts to other games, but blatantly reusing copyrighted resources of major game companies. I typed "mario tetris" into google and the first hit was this. Short of, say, a large-scale project to make an unauthorized chrono trigger sequel, the exact limits of the law are unlikely to come up for you. Things are I expect different if you plan to sell something.
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Zack Bell
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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2011, 09:38:53 PM »

Here's an idea; ask the IP owner's permission.

I'll end up doing this.^

Thanks for the insight, everyone.
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mikejkelley
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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2011, 12:35:51 AM »

You may want to ask others who have had success doing this how to best approach the IP holders. There was a mod that got license to use Mechwarrior? Battletech? (something mech/tech) IP if I recall...

Also, be sure you get it in writing.  Smiley
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Leroy Binks
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2011, 03:01:56 AM »

"Allusions," which is what you seem to want to implement, are not protected. They are very much copyright infringing.

And BTW, it doesn't matter if it's "for profit" or "in gratis (free)." It's still illegal. Claims to the contrary are the biggest, most ridiculous, irrational, internet copyright lore out there. It enrages me.

Robot Chicken is a set of satirical references to pop culture and is perfectly legal.
Big Bang Theory commonly makes direct reference to comics and other pop culture references and is perfectly legal.
Early South Park made many ALLUSIONS, casual references, to Star Trek, Charles Dickens, and popular films and was perfectly legal. 

I will use Fallout 2 as a perfect example.

Random Encounter 1: A pile of whale bones and a bowl of petunias.  This is a allusion to Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.
Random Encounter 2: A crashed spacecraft and three dead unnamed characters in red shirts. This is am allusion to Star Trek.
Random Encounter 3: A bridge across a gorge where you are asked three questions, that if you get any wrong, you die.  This is an allusion to Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail. 

Three allusions, one to literature, one to television, and one to film all used properly in a video game legally and without consent or compensation to any other party required.
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mikejkelley
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2011, 01:35:07 PM »

At least read what I've written, and if you're going to quote me, quote the relevant parts.

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Copyright laws make explicit exemptions for parody... For an element to be considered protected as parody, the portrayal should be critical of the work being referenced.

What do all your "allusions" have in common? They're all played for comedic value, hence parody, which is exempt from copyright. Mockery is a form of criticism, criticism is an element of parody. Parody is exempt from copyright law.

I will use Fallout 2 as a perfect example.

Random Encounter 2: A crashed spacecraft and three dead unnamed characters in red shirts.

Red shirts were expendable crew members that died in every other episode. It happened so often as to become cliched. Cliches are ripe for parody. Parodying expendable red shirted crew members is ubiquitous. Fallout 2 did it. Futurama did. There have been entire movies dedicated to parodying the cliches in Star Trek. Bookend this comment by re-reading what I've quoted.

The scenario that Zack Bell put forth is not parody. Simply including an angry birds slingshot in a game in order to co-opt the IP's popularity is, it should be obvious, illegal. Canibalizing the IP owner's market by diluting the property is the very thing copyright laws are meant to prevent.

Whether or not using IP in this manner is legal or not isn't up for debate. The law is explicit. It is illegal. If you really want to make a hobby out of this thread then debate whether or not he could get away with it.

Full disclosure; I've written well-received treatises on copyright law and its implications for the video game industry with the input of lawyers.
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Leroy Binks
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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2011, 05:28:46 PM »

In that case sir, please cite specific law that prohibits the use of allusion in entertainment. 

And if you want to go back to the case in point, using your "parody" model Zack could created a Bowser look-a-like with an Internet Explorer tshirt on and call him "Browser" and be completely in the clear, negating the entire discussion of parody v/s allusion.
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There are plenty of pixelated programmers pounding out products of peculiar playability at a prolific pace with purported profits.

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Zaphos
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« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2011, 06:12:37 PM »

In that case sir, please cite specific law that prohibits the use of allusion in entertainment.  
It's not a super precise sort of thing but an 'allusion' could perhaps be a derivative work, if it is large enough: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work

Quote
And if you want to go back to the case in point, using your "parody" model Zack could created a Bowser look-a-like with an Internet Explorer tshirt on and call him "Browser" and be completely in the clear, negating the entire discussion of parody v/s allusion.
Parody is something that is considered under fair use, it's not a robotically enforced absolute criteria.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_and_parody
(note also the parody vs satire distinction, as made by the courts, discussed at the link)

(standard disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, my source is wikipedia, could be all wrong, whatever)
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Leroy Binks
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« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2011, 06:33:12 PM »

An example of derivative work would be Alan Moore's League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. An allusion is a reference, little more than mentioning the subject in an off-hand way.  You "allude" to the work.

Dictionary.com: 
al·lu·sion   [uh-loo-zhuhn]
noun
1.a passing or casual reference; an incidental mention of something, either directly or by implication: an allusion to Shakespeare.
2.the act of alluding.
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Zaphos
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« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2011, 07:08:22 PM »

of course, it's a matter of extent, and allusion implies minimal extent.  but for example the Bowser 'allusion' Zack was talking about was basically inserting a copyrighted character wholesale into another game, with minor changes.  so the question is, is that 'just an allusion' or is it a derivative work?  (this is why I put the word allusion in quotes)
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mikejkelley
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« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2011, 08:33:21 PM »

@Leroy, I'm not going to spend too much more time on this. If you re-read my posts you'll notice that any time I too use the word "allusion" I do so with quotes. The implication is that I'm using the word so loosely as to be acting as my own lexicographer. The scenario Zack put forth was, as I understand it, including an angry birds slingshot in a game in order to co-opt the IP's popularity. That's not parody.

The "Browser" scenario might be protected as parody, that's for the courts to decide. I'm not a lawyer, but I certainly wouldn't recommend dressing up a copyrighted mascot with a registered trademark and expect everything to be OK.

And you shouldn't be implying that Zack is within his rights to co-opt IP in a manner that is almost certainly illegal. There are legal ramifications. I urge you to stop.
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Leroy Binks
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« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2011, 08:33:52 PM »

A single character could be an allusion.  

In Final Fantasy Tactics, Square actually makes an allusion to Final Fantasy VII with the flower girl, Aerith.  She appears briefly and is mentioned only as flower girl.  

In Kingdom Hearts, where there is full interaction with Aerith she is an integral part of the game and is a direct reference to FFVII.  This would not be an allusion.
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Leroy Binks
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« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2011, 08:35:42 PM »

@Leroy, I'm not going to spend too much more time on this.

Meaning that you cannot site specifically where an allusion has been ruled as copyright infringement.
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