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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperBusinessDevelopers staying relevant in the Unity/UDK world
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Author Topic: Developers staying relevant in the Unity/UDK world  (Read 1420 times)
Neight
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« on: December 06, 2011, 08:06:51 PM »

Hey everybody,
In Kansas City, we have a very developer heavy community. Like 3 to 1 developers to artists. I want to have a conversation at our next meetup about how we can use that to our advantage. I try to always provide an article as a topic start at each meetup, and am looking for something on this topic. I feel like artists with a little technical knowledge make completely different games than programmers with a little art ability. A lot of the guys in our community write their own engines, which just seems a waste. Does anyone know where there are good discussions about what programmers should focus on in a world where a technical artist can make games without programmers?

I'm not sure I'm quite getting my question across, but thanks in advance for any input.

-N8
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Leroy Binks
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« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2011, 09:21:37 PM »

No, but if this over abundance of Unity/UDK programmers have some time to kill, there is an over abundance of collaborative games looking for programmers to help their skills stay sharp! My team included!

And personally I run into artists everywhere I go, the mechanics of the game building are the ones that are hard to find.
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There are plenty of pixelated programmers pounding out products of peculiar playability at a prolific pace with purported profits.

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moi
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« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2011, 06:16:20 AM »

I think UDK/Unity requires some programming skills in order to be used.
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bluescrn
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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2011, 06:43:34 AM »

Quote
Does anyone know where there are good discussions about what programmers should focus on in a world where a technical artist can make games without programmers?

Their art skills Wink  

Unfortunately, that's close to the truth Sad

There's an endless supply of pretty good indie coders out there, but a relatively small amount of equivalently skilled artists, especially when you subtract those (the majority) that are unwilling to take risks (e.g. profit sharing) and only want safe money-up-front work. For many indies, the only option is to do your own art.

For coders, making games is the most enjoyable thing you can do with your coding skills. But for artists, there's often other things that they can enjoy equally if not more - maybe just creating 'art for arts sake', rather than game assets.

Coding is getting easier every day, art isn't. Professional art tools are still prohibitively expensive (especially for 3D), whereas plenty of powerful coding tools are free or relatively inexpensive.

Yes, the 'faux retro' indie style works very well for some, and when done well it looks great, but it's less appealing when everyone's trying to do the lo-fi pixel art thing (often badly/inconsistently!)

But there's always the option of designing code-heavy/content-light games. Anything with procedural generation, or user-created content as a key feature - Minecraft being an obvious example. (Just don't start another Minecraft-a-like, there's already over 9000 of them out there...)

And even in games that a technical artist could create - well, they could nearly always be done better with an experienced coder helping out. Whether it's to deal with tricky collision/physics issues, write AI/pathfinding code, or just to optimize it and get it running at 60fps - For anything game-specific and needing non-trivial algorithms, there'll always be code to write.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 06:49:04 AM by bluescrn » Logged

harkme
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« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2011, 07:42:32 PM »

Not sure about other programmers, but I love focusing on games with interesting coding problems like distributing work evenly over multiple threads or otherwise finding ways to simulate things with the hardware that is available. Although the amount of code you need to write in Unity is less, there are still problems to be solved and optimizations to be made that those less trained in programming would be unable to pull off.
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dustin
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« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2011, 08:58:02 PM »

wait, other people really think there are more coders then artists in the indie games community?  That seems crazy to me for a number of reasons...

1.  Just browsing here and flash gamelicense's forums I seem to see many more games with artists looking for coders then the other way around (although I admit I'm not looking for collaboration so I don't browse these parts of the boards heavily).  It also seems like in most cases it's viewed as the programmers game which the artist is working on not the artists game that the programmer is working on which seems to inicate there is a scarcity of programmers.

2.  In the jobs market in general programmers (and engineers in general I believe) are in a deficit and artists are in a surplus.  It seems like that would be reflected here as well. 

3.  From doing some amount of teaching at a college level students seem to find programming very very difficult to learn.  The school was at gives free tutoring to students taking classes which have the top 20% highest fail rates.  A ton of programming classes (it's mostly math, physics, engineering, and very writing intensive classes) always show up on this list while I'm not sure I've ever seen an art class on the list.  Not saying art is inherently easier then programming or anything but even though great programming tools have been developed it's still amazing how many people find programming ot be so difficult.
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nico
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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2011, 03:49:26 AM »

I think good coders will always be in demand, because the level of abstraction and technical thinking that goes into it just doesn't appeal to most people. Not to mention that in most business spheres OUTSIDE of game development, programmers are generally a lot more usable than artists (no offense guys! Smiley)

That said, doing game coding as a business model is an entirely different cup of tea. But it's not impossible, if you can make games that are based on algorithmic prowess (procedural games like DF and Minecraft come to mind) or other cool systems and solutions that aren't easily replicated in Unity (and that give actual VALUE to the user.)

And IIRC, desktop dungeons had crappy art when it started out. But the gameplay was good, and because of a braindead-simple mod system the community quickly stepped in and made their own art for it.
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DarthBenedict
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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2011, 12:29:40 AM »

High quality AI and complex simulation come to mind as things that still require a dedicated coder, even if you no longer need one to do yet another mario clone with trendy pixel art.
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