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[r.kachowski]

I'm not actually really upset... I just wanted to start a thread here to see what other people thought about it. (Got 6 pages out of it! Wahey!)


5. Continual comparisons with Space Invaders whilst not reading any of the rest of the thread. I mean what's the point of being in a forum if you don't read the threads before you reply to them eh? Might as well just be a bot. Maybe you are

Your entire purpose here seems to be for seeking attention. You've already stated that you don't care about the other game, so why carry on whining? You're just coming off as petty and immature.

I'll agree both games seem similar down to the colour scheme gameplay and feel, but what do you want? Aside from the acknowledgement you're desperately seeking, you're getting nothing but a bad reputation here.

[policedanceclub]

I'd just like to quote Ville because I think he nailed it pretty hard.

[William Broom]

Cas, although I think everything you are saying is basically true, you've gotten a lot of people off side with the way you say it. Calling people 'cocksuckers' and 'bots' isn't going to get you anywhere.

As for all you guys with the popcorn comments - grow up.

[princec]

I like being a dick, and I enjoy being unpopular on forums like this.

Cas

[Trapdaar]

Yup, a total ripoff.
Having played both titan attacks and space mutants, its really obvious.
Oh, and Space Mutants is not half as fun as Titan Attacks.
So there.

[Don Andy]

Yup, a total ripoff.
Having played both titan attacks and space mutants, its really obvious.
Oh, and Space Mutants is not half as fun as Titan Attacks.
So there.

I'VE GOT IT ALL WRONG

[Μarkham]

  1b. somehow convince themselves that because each individual feature is present in maybe another game that maybe they can't remember that
    1ai. Titan Attacks is itself a total rip off of loads of games and doesn't have a leg to stand on
    1aii. The two games did in fact evolve entirely spontaneously rather against the phonemonal odds to be virtually identical

Hey, I just said that there was a chance (slim as it might be) that he wasn't ripping you of.  I was trying to remain neutral in my post and pointing out game mechanics that you said he had copied from you that are also present in other like games that have been around for quite a while.  The parachuting aliens is what tips it off, though.

I was also trying to defend the graphics guy, who is more likely to not be trying to rip you off.  The genre almost always is in a night setting, and things tend to be dark blues and purples at night.  His background seems more "War of the Worlds" inspired, anyways.  It's also a 90's pre-rendered 3D style, rather than retro 80's pixellated style.

And to be fair for the people who haven't played your game, you only linked the ripoff game without even mentioning the name of yours.


By the way, what was the message you first sent the guy?  You've only shown the his response where he calls you childish.

[mirosurabu]

It takes much more time to prove that something is a rip-off than just playing two games and looking for similarities. Do you know how many years it takes to prove the plagiarism in music industry? Also, if you were working in music industry and sued someone for plagiarism you'd lose the case if details copied are not unique to your music.

I also find it interesting that you talk so much about the color-palette similarity when in fact it's the night-setting which these two settings have in common and not the colors. The night-setting is common for Space Invaders, isn't it?

My point is that you can't be sure that someone ripped you off so easily. There are different possible scenarios here. Accusing someone the he is, ignoring his arguments in favor of "my word against yours" will lead nowhere.

Grow up, Cas.

[Don Andy]

Maybe Niffla's Night Game is a ripoff, too

[princec]

By the way, what was the message you first sent the guy?  You've only shown the his response where he calls you childish.

I posted a comment on the game:
"Shameless complete rip-off of our game Titan Attacks, except not as good. Come up with something original next time guys."
is all.

Cas

[Gainsworthy]

Folks, cut Princec some slack. His game got ripped off, and Space Invaders.... Tribute or not, it is something unto itself. Depending on one's mindset, it could really hurt to see such an obvious copy floating about on a commercial flash portal. Guys are making money of his idea without giving a hint of credit. I doubt even all of you would say "Ooh, a tribute? To me! Delightful!"


Sure, swearing a little and getting angry never helps a situation, but when one feels ganged up on... well, it happens, doesn't it? Ya'll saying you've never got annoyed over something internet based? Felt like you were on the losing side and couldn't let it go? This is what's happening here. It's something personal, something he's worked hard on.


We all seem to know that the Best Possible Outcome from this is going to be a "Titan Attacks is also pretty good. We played it some. You should too!" There will be no further credit, no chance of it getting hit for plagarism, no royalties. Again, it might not bother You, The Reader. But try to understand the point of view, ja? Calming down would benefit Cas, for sure, but that takes time, damnit.



DISCLAMER: Have only played demo of Titan Attacks. Enjoyed said demo, but put it behind number of other indie games I need to purchase.

[jeb]

For the record, I'm with Cas on this one.

Sure, you don't have to whine (like Dock hasn't whined about Redstar Fall as far as I know), but I think it's understandable when people do. I think this will happen to more and more indie games.

[Alex May]

I think dock is too busy making games to have either noticed or bother caring.

[William Broom]

I like being a dick, and I enjoy being unpopular on forums like this.

Cas

Well fuck off then, I tried to help you out but you obviously just want people to feed your insatiable appetite for drama.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

One way I see it is, if someone is uncreative enough to have to clone a game and add nothing new to it instead of create something of their own, that's punishment enough, no? No need to do anything else, they're already suffering greatly just because they spent all that time and effort recreating something that wasn't theirs rather than creating something of their own.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

It takes much more time to prove that something is a rip-off than just playing two games and looking for similarities. Do you know how many years it takes to prove the plagiarism in music industry? Also, if you were working in music industry and sued someone for plagiarism you'd lose the case if details copied are not unique to your music.

I also find it interesting that you talk so much about the color-palette similarity when in fact it's the night-setting which these two settings have in common and not the colors. The night-setting is common for Space Invaders, isn't it?

My point is that you can't be sure that someone ripped you off so easily. There are different possible scenarios here. Accusing someone the he is, ignoring his arguments in favor of "my word against yours" will lead nowhere.

Grow up, Cas.

Being able to prove a game is a clone in a court of law is different from knowing it was a clone -- I agree that it wouldn't necessarily be easy to prove it's a clone, but that doesn't mean we can't be certain that it is one. The similarities are too numerous and the differences too small for it to have been coincidence, at least to most people who have played both games. I agree that none of those mechanics are unique, but in their combination they're unique.

[mirosurabu]

Yes, that's true. To people who have played both games it might seem improbable to be a coincidence combined with subliminal influence. But to people who have played more galaga clones and similar games released before and after Titan Attacks, the coincidence is not really improbable. Further, the author of Super Mutants did admit that it's possible that he was subliminally influenced.

The problem I see here is that Cas is not willing to discuss the possibilities. He strongly believes that his game is "blatantly ripped-off", constantly citing similarities between these two, ignoring the fact that most of the features he uses in his game were used in galaga and similar games released before and after Titan Attacks. Even more interestingly - he ignores the possibility of "subliminal influence".

I don't deny the possibility that Titan Attacks influenced Space Mutants in some way. I don't deny the possibility that it's the blatant rip-off. But to say it's blatant rip-off based solely on similarities is wishful thinking.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I agree with that, except that all thinking is wishful thinking. In other words I don't put any more stock in rigorous ways of proving that something is a clone in court than I put in personal judgment -- both are subject to the same errors because thinking is inherently a simplification of reality, so why place the court's way above other ways?

I don't really agree that the difference between people who think it's a coincidence or not is that one has played more games than the other, that's something of an ad hominem argument (since it relies on the character of the person rather than on the situation). I've probably played more galaga-style games than most people here just since I'm older than most people here, and and I can't imagine it'd have been a coincidence. Admittedly such things are hard to judge, like most of reality, so it's easy to be wrong. But it at least feels as open and shut as whether Giana Sisters was a clone of Mario Bros. -- is it also possible that that was a coincidence to people who have played enough platformers?

[Farmergnome]

Didnt have much chance to check this today, probably the last time I will because I feel like im trapped between two people arguing over some realy stupid shit, wes vs cas, man vs man.

YOUR SPACE INVADERS CLONE IS A CLONE OF MY SPACE INVADERS CLONE - about sums it up.

All this hate from making game art (which I do for free/hobby) to indies who ask has made me reconsider ever working with other indie programmers and the general scene again, just getting no satisfaction making over other peoples games only to get people like cas rubbishing me, and the general immaturity that follows a games release.

If its any help when wes talked to me about the art, he didn't mention titan attacks, it was mostly cheesy 50's themed reference he trawled up on the net, I just ran with it from there.

See you guys around, cas, grow up  

[princec]

I like being a dick, and I enjoy being unpopular on forums like this.

Cas

Well fuck off then, I tried to help you out but you obviously just want people to feed your insatiable appetite for drama.

Sorry, didn't mean to stoop to the level of sarcasm. Of course I don't like being an unpopular dick, but to be honest, I had thought to get some more reasoned discussion on TIGsource forums from people with more of an interest in game design.

Nothing's obvious here. Insatiable appetite for drama? Could have really just done with an apology and a recommendation, and a few nods of reasoned discussion, that'd be that. Instead I get flamed to fuck and called a tool / dick / etc. repeatedly by a few cocksuckers, and I forgot that age old aphorism about descending to someone else's level because they beat you on experience. I'm popping back to fan the flames a little because it's sort of painful to watch how people with an internet persona do this because they know I'm not going to twat them in the face. Me, on the other hand, I'm like this in real life. Ph34r!

Cas