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[Ramivacation]

Hey folks, long time lurker, first time poster here. I've been working on a game lately that strays a bit from the typical side-scrolling space shooter formula, as you can probably tell from the title. (Early, early alpha screenshot below.) Thing is, I'm starting to second guess myself a bit and I'm not sure if the way we're going with this will actually be fun. So let me know what you think!



There will be 2 phases to the game, and it will work pretty similarly to the XCOM formula. You'll start out on a world map in the shape of a globe and the planet is under siege by aliens, just like XCOM. You'll build a base, staff it, research things, etc.

You'll recruit from a very small pool of available pilots who qualify for the program (It's based on psionics, though. XCOM, anyone?) and choose which pilot will fly which mission. Missions will appear, again, similar (EXACTLY THE SAME?) to XCOM. When your sensors detect an enemy fleet, or if a city is being attacked, an enemy capital ship is discovered, rescue attempts for downed pilots, etc, you'll be able to click it and fly a mission there or completely ignore it. Incidentally, that means these missions will be random instead of linear or mostly linear the way most space shooters are.

Actual missions are where things get changed up. Instead of earning cash for killing enemies, your pilots earn experience and research bonuses for your labs. Each pilot will be able to pick a skill tree of what to focus on, for example, piloting, weapons or toughness (or something). The pilots will level up in traditional RPG fashion, and the better you perform during missions, the faster they'll level up. Research bonuses are acquired by performing difficult things in missions, sort of like achievements. Completing a long string of kills, using only one type of weapon, not taking any damage, etc. (There may or may not still be usual shooter power ups in a mission. Research and experience may take the place of that)

Lastly, there will be skills and special abilities that pilots can learn. These will be similar to using a MEGABOMB or something, except they'll do different things. The buttons 1-4 will be the skills you can bring with you, each will have a cooldown. This may include slowing down time, invincibility shields, improved damage, MEGABOMB, healing yourself, etc.

The reason we're adding these elements to the game is partially because I think it'd be fun as hell, but also because my team and I just aren't skilled enough to make some amazing shooter like Gradius or something. Making a good shooter requires some level of genius I just don't possess, so the hope is that adding this kind of depth will even that out.

So, now you have the idea. Here are my questions/concerns.

Will having random missions detract from the way a space shooter normally works?

Would a base-building, long research projects, XCOM-inspired campaign work for this kind of game?

Is a complicated RPG levelling element (assuming it's done correctly) tedious or more fun? Would normal space shooters like, say, Raptor benefit from this? Will it work doing this with multiple pilots?

All in all, does adding this sort of thing take away from what makes a shooter a shooter?

This was sort of a rambling post since I just decided to get your thoughts on a whim, but hopefully you guys can follow everything okay. Any advice/thoughts/questions/etc are welcome, so fire away. Thanks!

[baconman]

As long as the skill trees stay focused on the shmup action, this could be really wicked. I'd also suggest a multilinear plot - maybe a choice between 2 "Level 2s," etc.; with an occasional random/bonus "fun" mission additionally available - either by accomplishing an "achievement" (like collect or avoid all powerups, for example; or nuke all of one particular enemy type) and surviving, or with a 1/5000 shot (totally at random).

Also, you can combine your different aspects - for instance, selecting one mission will develop your base in one direction (ex: energy research?), and selecting the other will develop it another (ex: improve defensive hull?).

Finally, I think that third variable you're looking for is "manueverability." That's way more shmup-appropriate than "toughness."


Funny though - why do you think your team and you can't develop something Gradius-level? It's really about capturing what you find fun in shmups, and designing levels to account for that. You should see how many shmups Konami went through before Gradius!

[Ramivacation]

Thanks for the response! Since I didn't explain it quite right for non XCOM players, missions will appear randomly on the globe and you can pick to send ships to them or not. So, for example, an enemy fleet may be picked up by your sensors and headed to a city. If you can intercept the fleet in time, you can prevent it from attacking the city. If not, you'll have to either defend the city or ignore it and let it be destroyed. It's your choice whether or not you'll want to go on the mission. But I do really like the idea of unlocking new types of missions by completing special goals.

So I said all that to say there actually isn't a real plot in the game. Aliens are attacking and you can choose how to deal with that.

As for making a shmup as fun as Gradius in the action department, maybe we can, but I'm not banking on it. I think it's hard to tell while you're making a game what's going to be fun and what won't. I've played a ton of shmups, sure, but I've never made one and if there's one thing I've learned while making games, it's that it's super difficult to understand what the player is getting out of your game from the dev's point of view.

[laserdracula]

The concept definitely has the potential to be fun.  I think it would be wise to distill it down to the necessary essentials.  Since the game is based around shmup gameplay, it's inherently simple; so it wouldn't make much sense to have a super-complex character attribute system built around that. 
I've never seen an rpg shmup that actually worked well, but I think it's possible if you focus on good core shmup gameplay that's supported by the rpg stuff, rather than being driven by the rpg stuff. 

[Ramivacation]

The only way I can describe it is having an overworld like XCOM and then have the missions act like random battles in some jRPG (except that you can see them and choose whether or not you'd like to fly them). So in a jRPG battle, you fight, earn experience, eventually level up and increase your stats. This game would work the same way.

Though having overly complicated stats is a good point...

I was thinking each pilot would have somewhat random amounts of the following stats;

Piloting Ability: (how quickly the aircraft moves around. Increasing this stat is also required in order to fly more advanced ships.)

Intelligence: (The higher this stat, the faster the other stats climb)

Toughness: (each mission stresses a pilot out and they'll need downtime between missions. Toughness reduces how much stress affects you. It also affects how likely you are to survive a crash and the amount of time the pilot can survive prior to being rescued. Finally, this stat affects how much HP your shields have.)

Psionic Strength: (Basically, attack power and spell power. Also affects how much damange is mitigated by your shields by a small amount)

Psionic Capacity: (You can become mentally overloaded if you use too much psi too quickly. This stat allows you to use more psi before that happens. Increasing this stat is also required to learn new abilities.)

When you level up, you'll be able to pick which stats to increase as opposed to it happening on its own. Hopefully that's the correct level of complexity.