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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignMix of Lemmings/Braid/Heavy Rain
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Honski
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« on: November 03, 2010, 09:13:54 AM »

I've been thinking about this idea for a while now, but people around me (no devs) don't seem to like this idea, so I'd like to hear some other oppinions.

Basically it's a little like Heavy Rain, where the main focus is on telling a good story that changes with your actions. I'm not just thinking about different endings, but also different paths along the way. It'd take only a few hours to reach the end of the game once, but there would still be many questions you'd like to have answered, so you'll try to discover alternative routes. I already have some good ideas about a story/setting, but that's a different topic for now.

Gameplay wise I'd like to make it some a little less interactive. You'd be able to place/move objects and change the behaviour of the main character, but not control him directly. To add some depth to it and remove annoyances, there would be some tools to control the time and allow you try different things in a short time and see how it plays out. I'm thinking a little of Braid here.

The game would most likely end up being 2d with some unique/less used art style, since I have very little experience in 3d programming.

I don't want to get too much into details yet, but what do you think of it?
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mirosurabu
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2010, 09:13:23 PM »

So it's a game with a branching storyline where you control character indirectly and where you can rewind your play?

Sounds interesting, would be nice to hear a bit more.
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chrisjan
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2010, 04:37:27 AM »

And the lemmings part?
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s0
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2010, 06:40:41 AM »

Sounds interesting but I'm not so sure about the time rewinding thing. I prefer "branching path" games that force permanent decisions instead of just letting me freely experiment. It makes the story more involving.

But I think the important question to ask yourself here is whether you're capable of actually making and finishing this game. What's your previous experience with game development? Would this be your first game? If so, you probably shouldn't waste this idea on it.
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JoeManaco
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2010, 08:53:18 AM »

Sounds interessting, but like often the most important thing is not the idea itself, but how that the idea is executed and produced.
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IQpierce
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2010, 12:57:08 PM »

And the lemmings part?
The "indirect control" part is the Lemmings part - you don't control Lemmings directly, but you do so by putting stuff in their way.

This is super obscure, but as a teenager I once read in some magazine about a game, "Pac Man 2: The New Adventures", where you controlled Pac-Man indirectly and solved problems "with" him. It always sounded like an interesting experimental kind of game (from an era where experimental games actually got made with major licenses and put on shelves, can you imagine that today?)... anyway I never played it but you might consider trying to dig up a ROM for it, it's always good to look at similar games to give you ideas.

Oh, you should also look at "Lucidity", a recent platformer where you place the platforms in front of the character for them to find their way around. "Eets" may also be relevant.

You know, I haven't played Heavy Rain (though I should), but I have played something similar: a "Choose Your Own Adventure" book. I don't have a high opinion of them as game designs, although at the same time, I think that games are about interesting decision, and decisions that I heard about in HR such as "would you cut your pinky off to save your child?" are certainly interesting.

But my real problem with choose-your-own-adventure gameplay is that it ultimately still feels like I'm experiencing a story someone else wrote, rather than making a story for myself through my own experience. Unless there are hundreds or thousands of permutations (and the work behind writing all those, even for a text-based game, is impractical), it will never give me a feeling that I'm really choosing my own path through events.

Then again, Fallout was a game that had a lot of mini-stories within the game, and I definitely felt like I was occupying my character and directing my own path there. Maybe there just have to be enough choices for me to feel that I can express my own personality (or the personality of the character I'm role-playing).

All in all I'm more interested in games that are "systems" than ones that are based around branches of discrete choices, no matter how dense those branches may be. But it's always worth experimenting, I'd love to see an indie do something new with the Heavy Rain formula.

The time-travelling seems like a logical addition to me - but it does give you the equivalent of being able to basically flip through each and every page of the "Choose Your Own Adventure book"... an easy way to go back and see every different possible path you can go down. To some this might rob the magic and further destroy the feeling that "the story is my own"; to others it simplifies what they're going to do anyway, which is play the game over and over again and see all the content.

I would probably make a prototype without time-manipulation if I were you, and consider adding it later after you see how the game plays. In fact if you prototype this, I would focus on the "indirect control" mechanics first, those are experimental and mostly-unprecedented enough that you'd want to play around with them to be sure you had that core being something pretty fun.
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One guy trying to make some interesting decisions.
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2010, 01:53:17 PM »

How would this compare to, say, the "Grow" series? That's what popped in my head when I read it.

http://www.eyezmaze.com/grow/v3/index.html

This sounds a lot like what you're suggesting - the player has a finite number of items, but rather than simply arranging them in an obvious way (like Lemmings) each item manipulates the narrative and results in a different direction of the action (like Heavy Rain).

I'm not sure how the Braid thing would fit in, other than the player can go back and forth through time at will to try different things.

I think this could work! It certainly works for the Grow series.
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