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[Kneecaps]

Good day, gentlemen. 

I'm doing a feature informational story for Journalism about how someone can get started making indie games.  While I could probably write the entire story from info I've cluttered my head with for the past four years, our teacher requires many quotes from multiple sources.  Unfortunately, that's not a class I plan on cheating in. 

So here's what I need:

Your real name.  As awesome as attributing a quote to Balrog279283 would be, my Journalism teacher would not be too thrilled.  So if you don't want to reveal your name, you don't need to bother with the rest.

Your answers to the following questions.  You can answer as many or as little questions as you want.  Some of the answers will be pretty obvious/simple, but once again, I'm not allowed to inject any of my "wisdom".  All help will be appreciated.

Here's the questions:

1) What knowledge/skills should an aspiring game developer have before they start making games?

2) What knowledge/skills are helpful, but not required?

3) What software did you use when starting out?  What software would you recommend to others?

4) What are some of the struggles with game development?  What are some of the rewards?

5) Who should avoid making games altogether, if anyone?

6) Where can people go for help once they've started making games?

7) What should future game developers expect their work to be like after a month?  A year?  5 years?  Fifty hundred years?

8 ) Do you support/recommend game design majors offered by colleges?  Why or why not?

Those are the questions I have so far.  Feel free to recommend any additional questions or subjects. 

***BUT WAIT!***

There will be a prize for whoever provides the most helpful information.  The prize can be an original (woo) drawing or Flash game of your choice.  Don't expect anything too amazing.  I'll announce the winner on Wednesday, Dec. 3.  Even if you don't want a prize, you're still going to get one. 

This post needs more smilies.  :D 

UPDATE!  Titch won.  See below.

[Laremere]

As awesome as attributing a quote to Balrog279283 would be, my Journalism teacher would not be too thrilled.

I think if they played Cavestory, I don't think they would mind. 

I'd submit something, but I'll leave it for people who have actually finished something.

[Guert]

Perhaps it would be more efficient if you searched the boards for members that are know for their games and that are established members of the indie community, then ask them directly. It would make your sources more reliable. Not that I don't want to help but that's what I would do.

My two cents.

[Kneecaps]

Perhaps it would be more efficient if you searched the boards for members that are know for their games and that are established members of the indie community, then ask them directly. It would make your sources more reliable. Not that I don't want to help but that's what I would do.

My two cents.

I'll try that, but I've not had much luck recently when trying to directly interview people. :/

[Inane]

Hola! I'm Lorne Whiting, and I've never finished a real game.

Here's the questions:

1) What knowledge/skills should an aspiring game developer have before they start making games?

2) What knowledge/skills are helpful, but not required?

What skills you need really depends on how much you want to work with other people.
While there are people who can do everything by themselves, ones that can do everything well are a bit rare (Konjak, Pixel, and... YMM?). Most independent developers I know of fit into one of three categories: Visual artists, musicians, and programmers. This division is especially apparent here on TIGS, I think, where none of us have the willpower or motivation to learn all the necessary skills :D.I'd say there are various skills that are important to each of the three categories though.

Art for games, as the subject I'm most familiar with, requires animation skills, good design sense, and to not try to perfect every sprite or other element, as that'll fuck up your productivity like you wouldn't believe.

I'd say the most important part, however, is a good work ethic, and the ability to motivate yourself. I can say this with some confidence, as it's the only thing stopping me from actually finishing games.

3) What software did you use when starting out?  What software would you recommend to others?

For pixel art, two main programs dominate, atleast locally: GraphicsGale and Pro Motion. It's good to keep in mind, however, that just about anything is better than mspaint. I use GraphicsGale, mostly since I'm poor and adapted to it. The customizable hot keys and palette management are god sends. Pro Motion has more 'advanced' features, but I find the interface confusing as hell, and it costs more.

Code:

5) Who should avoid making games altogether, if anyone?

Anyone can try. If they shouldn't be making games, that will become apparent after their first forum post on some game development forum saying "I wanna make an MMORPG like WoW". It's, you know, a natural selection thing.  Almost invariably, people who set out to make RTSs, MMORPGs, and RPGs fall flat on their face and give up.

6) Where can people go for help once they've started making games?

I dunno. Most of the help I get is from friends I've accumulated and leeched from over the years. Most of which are from The Independent Gaming Source and Pixelation. though.

8 ) Do you support/recommend game design majors offered by colleges?  Why or why not?

I don't know, it all seems pretty obvious to me what I should be doing, so I'm not going to be taking any classes on game design, but not knowing what they're like I can't really say anything for or against them.


Also, it might be worth talking to RinkuHero. He has a lot to say about this kind of stuff. TeeGee, too.

[mrfredman]

My name is Sam Goldberg, I'm an art major at UCSC, I've only been making games since last winter. Since then I've successfully completed two games (only one by myself).

I'm sort of in essay writing mode myself, so rather then answering the bullet points directly, I've cobbled together some sort of pseudo-essay that I think touches on most of your points.

Some sort of basic understanding of art and/or programming is necessary to become a game developer. In a perfect world, every game designer would be fully versed in both, but it seems to me that its possible to get by knowing just one. If you have an understanding of both you definitely have a leg up on the competition, but as long as you are capable of finding other people to work with, it isn't really necessary.

I know next to nothing about programming, but thanks to easy-to-use tools like gamemaker and opportunities for collaboration at TIGSource, I've managed to get a few games completed. There are many free tools for creating artwork/animation, sound effects, music, and games. At this point the resources are out there for any inspired person. If you want to start making games all you need to do is look online.

The biggest struggle I've had as a game developer is getting things done! Its so hard for me to get motivated to work on a game without any sort of pressure or deadlines, I think its probably just the stress-filled collegiate atmosphere I've become accustomed too. I was able to complete my first game because it was for a game development course at my school, and if I didn't finish it, I wouldn't get a good grade. The TIGSource competitions have been the other way I've been able to complete games. They are a great opportunity for friendly collaboration, a bit of exposure, and reasonably static deadline.

As for rewards, I'd say completing a game. It's quite an achievement in itself, and even if no one ever plays it and/or its god awful, at least you finished a game, which is more than a lot of people can say.
 
The internet has been my number one resource when it comes to learning how games are made. There are so many tutorials and lessons out there for just about anything you could possibly want, you just need to look. There are also tons of cheap or open-source utilities for every aspect of game development, and just about every one comes with an active community of people willing to answer a few questions and help you on your way. Then there are communities like TIGSource, full of motivated people making games just for the hell of it who are helpful in so many ways. Any question you could possibly have about making games can be answered on the internet.

Onto college game design majors, something I'm pretty well versed in. It seems that colleges are just starting to notice that game design majors are in high demand and very profitable. The problem is that there aren't really any programs that have been around long enough to figure out how to properly teach people to make games.
In figuring out what I wanted to do with my life, I spent a lot of time researching all of the various college programs offering art-focused game design majors. From what I've deduced, most of the programs that will give you game design degrees are really just out to get your money. There are various tiers of game design degrees for a whole range of prices, from community college certificates to expensive art-school diplomas. Any of these courses could potentially be useful for someone who knows next to nothing about game design, but everything they teach at these schools, you could learn yourself for free with the help of the internet. That isn't to say you won't learn how to make games at any by getting a degree in game design, but its gonna cost an arm and a leg. If you have the means and desire to acquire a college diploma, it would be just as useful to get a traditional fine arts or computer science degree. Knowing the cold hard fundamentals of how art and/or computers work will probably get you much farther than having an overview of how games are made (which is what most game design curriculum's seem to consist of).

Having said all that, I have no proof that a regular old degree will lead to success as a game developer, as I have yet to finish college or achieve success. I'm just advocating the choices I have made because they seem to be working so far, and the people I've spoken with who actually make games have told me that they would place more confidence in someone fresh out of college with a well rounded education than someone who has a game design diploma from whatever school is running tv-commercials this week.

In summation, it doesn't really matter how your choose to learn to make games, there are tons of options for everyone. As long as you are really motivated to make games and you are willing to work your ass off, there is a good chance that you will be able to achieve some degree of success making video games.

[Farbs]

Your real name.  As awesome as attributing a quote to Balrog279283 would be, my Journalism teacher would not be too thrilled.  So if you don't want to reveal your name, you don't need to bother with the rest.

Are you sure about this? It makes much more sense to me that people who develop under pseudonyms would be quoted under those pseudonyms. A quote by an indie developer isn't worth much if you can't tie it to their games.

[Kneecaps]

Your real name.  As awesome as attributing a quote to Balrog279283 would be, my Journalism teacher would not be too thrilled.  So if you don't want to reveal your name, you don't need to bother with the rest.

Are you sure about this? It makes much more sense to me that people who develop under pseudonyms would be quoted under those pseudonyms. A quote by an indie developer isn't worth much if you can't tie it to their games.

I will most likely include peoples names as well as their pseudonyms, and if necessary, prominent game(s) they have made.  The name thing is a requirement for the class.

Also, thanks Lorne and Sam!  Your input is very helpful.

[Titch]

Thought I would add my five cents since I have been on a games design program and stuff.

My real name is Duncan Saunders, I graduated from the Vancouver Film School Game design program six months ago. I've been making games for about 9 or 10 year now; but only really attempting to finish polish and publish them for free since I got out of school. My most recent released game was Gun-Fu under flash, which I submitted for the Golden Joystick awards.

1) What knowledge/skills should an aspiring game developer have before they start making games?

There are three things you need to make games. The first thing is a passion for creating (not playing) video games. In order to get really good at making games you always put in a disproportionately large amount of time relative to how much you get back from it. There will be a LOT of times where it won't be fun or interesting. You need passion to be able to slog through all that learning, debugging, fixing code. To have what it takes to write something awesome and then throw it away, because to make truly great games you'll have to throw away stuff that is only 'good' by comparison, even if you spent hours making it.

The second thing you need, which should follow from the first is being able to program/script or create art for video games. Both take time and effort, but I deny that either are reserved for 'naturally talented' people. It's just a question of if you are determined enough you are to find the information and use it to learn the skills you need.

The third thing you have to be able to do is to have a sense of scale and be able to reduce the scale and scope of your game to something you could plausibly make with the very limited resources. Being able to single out what is special about an epic sized idea and make a very small game is the key to be able to satisfy your ideas if you can't dream small.

2) What knowledge/skills are helpful, but not required?

Being good at accepting criticism, dealing with other people and being an active member of a community help. Particularly if you find the idea of working alone lacking in appeal and DEFINITELY if you intend to make it your career path. Of course, working with someone else is a whole new ballgame of skills to learn. I can't really comment on that because I haven't taken part in many successful team based projects, just enough unsuccessful ones to know it gets exponentially harder the more people who work on the same game.

Being able to find things on the internet or at your local library. The answers to all the most basic questions about most tools are available online or in the help manual. There are tons of good books and sites to look at for raising your art game or getting references to work from. Being able to find the answers fast will speed your work flow like crazy early on when you are teaching yourself the skills.


3) What software did you use when starting out?  What software would you recommend to others?

Discounting that I was drawing my game ideas on paper before I was allowed a computer. I made first complete game using The Games Factory. Since I was eleven and didn't know anything about programming it made it easy to get into.

My software recommendation for people who find C++ and other 'real' programming languages intimidating is Adobe Flash. Flash is the bees knees to me. Easy to program for, easily available, plays online, works on nearly every computer. If you are serious about getting into games you can raise the funds for a flash license and then put out a game under a sponsorship license to recoup your costs.

My 'big' software recommendation isn't hardware, a pencil and a bit of paper. Every single game I've translated to a computer smoothly is spread across about 30 bits of paper somewhere on my desk. Having a map of where you intend to go with a game before you set out into the unknown is incredibly useful even if you change everything en route.

4) What are some of the struggles with game development?  What are some of the rewards?

Striking a balance between planning and doing. If you spend too long planning you will be plagued with 'not getting anything done'-itis, mostly because it's more exciting thinking about what your game should do rather than what it does. Plan too much and the project will get too big. If you spend too much time doing things your game gets disorganized and unbalanced or you waste time trying to do something the wrong way, but you do get a feel for how easy or hard some things are in execution. You also achieve more which helps you feel motivated.

The biggest reward is the game, obviously. There is an immense sense of satisfaction when everything comes together. Which (usually) only gets better when you start to get feedback from players. There is also a sense of achievement each time you manage something new, like your first parallax scroll, or a particular particle effect.

5) Who should avoid making games altogether, if anyone?

People who put value on ideas and those who lack determination. All ideas are equally valuable. None of them are worth as much as a programmer or artist who brings them to life. Games take an inhuman about of work to make and they get less exciting a more hard work the closer you get to finishing them, staying power is almost more important than talent.

6) Where can people go for help once they've started making games?
Google, The manual for the software they are using, The Library/Books (under advisement, some programming books are crap), Games Dev Community's. Although keeping in mind that some of the most interesting ideas you will ever have will often come from real life.

7) What should future game developers expect their work to be like after a month?  A year?  5 years?  Fifty hundred years?
Challenging, no matter how much time passes. However much time passes as long as you aren't in mainstream design every new game will bring new challenges. As soon as a tool comes along to make something easier, it means you have to work harder to stay ahead of everyone who has that tool.

8 ) Do you support/recommend game design majors offered by colleges?  Why or why not?

I'm divided on this. Right now it's a popular subject to attract students in a lot of university's and they are putting programs together without much thought to if they are giving the skills needed to make form a career. Also the industry attitude makes it very difficult for a student to break in; making your expensive degree all the harder to pay for. It's also worth noting that a value of a games design degree will drop FAST after you graduate, due to the speed at which the industry moves.

Personally I found my program very rewarding, but not nearly worth the amount I paid for it. The best recommendation I can give about picking a design school/program is to choose one where the teachers are veterans of the games design industry. Being able to talk to someone who has been making games at Relic for ten years is infinitely more valuable than the pretty bit of paper you will get when you graduate. The key to making the most of it is to network network network as no amount of research on the internet will replace a circle of peers who work in the industry.

[Kneecaps]

The best recommendation I can give about picking a design school/program is to choose one where the teachers are veterans of the games design industry. Being able to talk to someone who has been making games at Relic for ten years is infinitely more valuable than the pretty bit of paper you will get when you graduate. The key to making the most of it is to network network network as no amount of research on the internet will replace a circle of peers who work in the industry.

Gah!  Too many things are making Ringling's GAD major sound awesome (their GAD teachers are industry veterans too).  I'm applying there, but since they only have 15 spots for the major, I have a horrible sinking feeling like I'm not going to make it.

Quite a helpful post!  Thanks again to everyone!

[Kneecaps]

I'm noob enough to double post!

After looking over my rough draft, out of the people in this topic, Titch has the most quotes in it.  So now he gets a prize whether he wants one or not!  Yay!

Titch, you can request a drawing or a short flash game, or I can come up with something on my own.  Your choice.

[Titch]

You know, I didn't even read the part about getting a prize when I responded to the topic. So it was a nice surprise. 

I'll have a think and try to let you know what I would like soon.

[Hajo]

8 ) Do you support/recommend game design majors offered by colleges?  Why or why not?

I feel very uncertain about this point. Most of these programs are fairly new; good games had been made before.

To me it seems that they just got aware of a trend "I want to make games too", and then tried to offer something that suits this trend.

I don't want to say they are bad. I just think there are other ways that work as well.

For example, if you major in computer science, get some knowledge about business economics, and then try to team up with people who are proficient in graphics and music/sound, you are set as well, maybe even off better.

Edit: This implies you have natural talent for game design. If you don't have that, the "game design" programs might actually help

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Paul Eres, Radical Poesis Games & Creations

1) What knowledge/skills should an aspiring game developer have before they start making games? - Before they start? I'd actually recommend they start as soon as possible, regardless of skills or knowledge. They don't even need to know how to program or how to draw, they can use engines like Game Maker or make mods, and learn on the way. The most important thing is not to delay starting until you feel you're ready, just start, the best way to learn how to swim is to jump in, as they say.

2) What knowledge/skills are helpful, but not required? - Skills: Programming, drawing, 3d modeling, music composition, writing, etc. Knowledge: Pretty much everything helps and can be useful, since the world is interconnected so much.

3) What software did you use when starting out?  What software would you recommend to others? - I started out using QBASIC back in 1994 or so. I'd recommend using Game Maker to start.

4) What are some of the struggles with game development?  What are some of the rewards?  Basically the same as in any creative profession, I'd imagine.

5) Who should avoid making games altogether, if anyone?  People without patience, or who have a short attention span. People who dislike / despise other people.

6) Where can people go for help once they've started making games?  To more experienced people.

7) What should future game developers expect their work to be like after a month?  A year?  5 years?  Fifty hundred years?  Predicting the future is impossible.

8 ) Do you support/recommend game design majors offered by colleges?  Why or why not?  I do not have any experience with them, but since I managed without it I don't think it's necessary.

[Titch]

Kneecaps, go ahead and pick something of your own devising. I like surprises.

I'm not sure how much I support the idea that having a computer science degree is any better than having a well chosen games design degree. Sure it'll get you an well paid programming job; but this will quickly lead to frustration if you are looking to make games and all you spend your time doing is writing new collision detection systems, lighting systems. It's increasing you chances that you'll be pigeon holed into programming because it's what you are good at and fills a huge shortage of good programmers. I'm not -in- the industry, so this is just an opinion based on sensible business practices and the fact that my own talent for programming ends up kicking my wish to do design work in the balls in group projects. Hopefully I'm wrong.

From an indy POV; well to be blunt you don't need to spend three years and a small fortune to learn enough programming to make games. The most time I've ever needed to spend with a single language before it was possible to make games with was about six months, and that's the crappy ones. It would probably be more useful to go on short courses for different languages/tools to try and find out what fits best.

[Kneecaps]

Sweet.  I think I have an idea that could be pretty cool.   I just need to find time to make it.  With any luck, it will be done by the end of the weekend.

I've finished the story, but I still feel like talking about college stuff.  I have a "natural interest" in programming, and a "natural talent" in art.  I feel that for the games I want to work on, I can teach myself everything I personally want to learn about programming.  With art though, I need someone else telling me to work in order to grow.  I can draw observationally just fine, but I can't illustrate my way out of a paper bag.

Would it be better for me to get an art degree in something like animation or illustration, or would a really good game design program (read: Ringling) be just as helpful?  This is not just in terms of advancing my games, but also getting an income, etc.

[Inane]

If you can draw observationally but not imaginatively, I think you would learn more from teaching yourself how to do so moderately well, at your own pace, and then going to an illustration class, then you would from starting out at the class.
Someone who's actually been to one of said classes could tell you more though :D.

[mrfredman]

If you want to learn to draw creatively a game design program probably wont be that helpful. Again, I've never actually attended one, but the syllabi of the game design schools I was considering only had one or two introductory courses in drawing and then they focused more on learning to use the software tools needed to work in the  mainstream game industry (mya, 3D Studio, whatever game engine they have you working in, etc).

If you think that you already know that fundamentals of art and just need some guidance and prodding to think outside the box and challenge yourself, then you could probably get that in whatever art courses your game design program offers.

If you want to learn all the techniques and tricks that artists use, and push yourself to be a well-rounded artist, then some sort of art degree is probably for you. If you want to try and get some sort of art degree though, I would recommend just getting a some sort of broad 'Art' or 'Fine art' degree rather than boxing yourself in with animation or a more specific degree. I have been learning that if you want to be an artist in the game design world, it is a huge benefit to be versatile and adaptable. If you limit yourself to a specific skill set, then you are limiting the jobs you are qualified for.

[Titch]

Would it be better for me to get an art degree in something like animation or illustration, or would a really good game design program (read: Ringling) be just as helpful?  This is not just in terms of advancing my games, but also getting an income, etc.

If you have a specific program in mind, see if you can get into contact with some of the grads of that program and get them to be candid about their experience. If they're still working in coffee shops that would be a pretty bad sign. If there aren't enough grads to find anyone to talk to it would also be a bad sign. Failing that try and get to meet some of the Alumni who teach there and do some background research. The amount of useful advice you'll get towards getting a job is normally directly proportional to how long someone has been in the industry.

The die hard cynic in me says that if you -just- want to break into a job in the most cost effective way, skip the degree and make for the mod scene or developing your own killer tech demo while doing a part time/day job. It costs less and seems to be just as effective.