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[michaelplzno]

The point is that once your game starts making a ton of sales really quickly (You have to get this to happen on your own.) then they start recommending you.

Great. If I have to get a few thousand sales all in the span of an hour or so, (OR MORE? They don't say how many sales you need to trigger getting recommended.) then why don't I just get those sales on my own website rather than on steam? I'd rather partner with people who are open and transparent (And friendly, and fun to talk to.) than steam, who won't even answer my tickets.

If "partner" means to steam how they treat me, I feel sorry for all of the Valve bro's wives.

[michaelplzno]

One thing that really steams me off in this video is that the guy (who is not an engineer.) explains that there are multiple algorithms rather than just one algorithm, as if that is a meaningful distinction to someone who's fate is controlled by their system.

[Ramos]

Many don't understand that Steam recommendations are a BONUS.

All businesses have product->marketing->sale but Steam also gives indie devs an extra visibility boost as a bonus.

The 30% Steam takes is not for visibility but for the virtual store(security of transactions for both Developers and players).

[michaelplzno]

I got paypal to accept credit card payments for a game I made in 2006, you think that has gotten more difficult now?

Valve expects you to pay to win by spending your time and money marketing the game, aka giving them customer and user data based on your time and money. Only then do you get recommended. If they aren't going to recommend me, then their platform is literally useless.

[Ramos]

True but then the majority of players trust the Steam brand and not many would be willing to download games/apps from unknown sites yet alone to pay

[michaelplzno]

I'm not a business unless customers trust my brand and me.

If they trust steam, that's great, how does that help me grow as a business?

Valve is making noise about how to be a business you have to do marketing. That is good advice, but why should I work with them in any way? Spend a ton on marketing to give my customers to valve?

[Ramos]

If they trust you and your brand what do you need Steam for?

[michaelplzno]

That's my point, I'm going to just build independently, there is no incentive to launch on steam unless you are a sucker.

[Ramos]

So you say that I am a sucker just because I don't share the same opinion as you?

Not cool

[michaelplzno]

tough love, friend, tough love.

[michaelplzno]

Here's valve's pitch:

Hi, we have millions of customers, we'd like 30% of your company's income, in return we will do literally nothing until you bring in a big crowd of people to pay for your game. Yes, even while you are doing 100% of the work to bring in that crowd, we still get 30% of your money, and also we won't tell you how big of a crowd you need to trigger getting us to support you, so you can't really know if you are ever going to trigger visibility. Think of us showing your game to our customers as a kind of "bonus." Also you don't get any info about or the ability to contact anyone who buys your games and we will bombard them with other people's products in attempts to get them to buy as much from our store as possible.

What?

[michaelplzno]

I mean, its tempting, but I also want someone who works at valve to kick me in the nuts too, that'll really get me into the spirit of the thing.

[Ramos]

No, it just shows a lack of respect and a huge amount of frustration on your side.


I withdraw from the conversation.


 

[michaelplzno]

I get why steam would be a ton of fun for a *hobbyist* someone who is making games for the fun of it, and doesn't need any income from it. You get to interact on the forums, you get to talk to streamers, etc, its kind of a game. But if you need real income from steam it is not a business friendly company.

[Foxwarrior]

That's my point, I'm going to just build independently, there is no incentive to launch on steam unless you are a sucker.

That's what EA, and Ubisoft, and Blizzard, and Microsoft, and Bethesda, and Epic Games said too, and look how it worked out for most of them.

[michaelplzno]

In my case its likely damned if you do damned if you don't but whatever. I'm glad the indies are all in support of a giant monopoly.

[michaelplzno]

I shouldn't be so mean to valve, as far as giant monopolies that control an industry I love go, they are much better than they could be. And I'm sure they treat their wives great. I'm just clearly not a "partner" with them and it makes me want to pull out my hair.

[nathy after dark]

Sorry to necromancy an old thread, but I feel this pain and frustration so much.

Some royalties going to Valve makes sense for what Steam offers, but they also demand so much labor to participate in their marketplace--30% is an absurdly large cut considering that developers bring the product. I want Steam indie developers to stop treating 30% as a normal/fair cut. We should unionize and demand a better deal.

[michaelplzno]

I would pay steam 40% if they were going to do 40% of the work, which means they are going to promote me and help my game sell. If I must change things to meet certain criteria I will. But if I don't know where the goalposts are then why should I work with them?

[michaelplzno]

I'm sorry I insulted the valve team's wives, and I'm sorry I called the people who took the steam deal a "sucker."

I say the valve deal is bad as someone who has worked with steam and feels like a sucker as a result, which was more directed at myself than other developers who have a positive interaction with steam. If you can get steam to respect you, then you are golden, the 10k pound gorilla is on your side. They don't seem to see me personally as anything other than a rube who is supposed to spend my own time and money to give valve my own hard-earned supporters.