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[weasello]

I think the preview program is a quick way to invite people to test your game, while hosted on their site, without having to setup a full fledged "Buyer" or "Creator" account. So like, if I wanted my mom to test my game, I could invite her.

I've not invited anyone to be a previewer though, so I can't say.

[Blackcorn]

I think the preview program is a quick way to invite people to test your game, while hosted on their site, without having to setup a full fledged "Buyer" or "Creator" account.

Well, it doesn't look very useful when you already have a community such as TIGsource forum full of people ready to test and review your game or beta... Is there really nothing more (p)reviewer or developper could benefit from this "preview program"?

[bateleur]

Well, it doesn't look very useful when you already have a community such as TIGsource forum full of people ready to test and review your game

But the thing is, how are you going to handle that? If you just post your game to TIGSource then you've published it, which will mean no sponsorship (or at least will put off the majority of sponsors and mean far less money).

Previewing aims to address exactly this problem. You can let people preview your game without publishing it.

[Blackcorn]

If you just post your game to TIGSource then you've published it, which will mean no sponsorship (or at least will put off the majority of sponsors and mean far less money)

Indeed, that is a good argument, but that is not absolutely true. You can ask for people to review a beta-test version of your game on TIGSource (you can host on a private server or something like this) or find some players to test your game without publishing it (For instance, Raitendo did this several times as far as I know).

[bateleur]

Sure, if you happen to have the resources and skills to host a private beta test then you don't need FGL's help. I would guess most developers are not in that position.

[aeiowu]

That's true, but even so, you're not going to be able to have the same kind of numbers of sponsors that will visit your beta as you would on FGL. I think a more accurate example of someone who "doesn't need/want to use FGL" would be those with a set relationship with a sponsor.

examples being:

ThisIsPop with Adult Swim
Nitrome with Miniclip

These guys almost exclusively only work together, they know they're going to continue working together and they're not shopping around for a sponsor. If you're shopping around for a sponsor or best offer, well, then I'm not aware of a single developer that has the infrastructure, clout and resources to do half as well as you could on FGL.

[bateleur]

not going to be able to have the same kind of numbers of sponsors

Blackcorn was just talking about Preview support on FGL. As in, the stuff under the "Edit Previewing" tab.

[Melly]

Very recently, after nearly 2 months waiting for decent bids in FGL (besides a single low one), I started receiving much better bids from a second sponsor. The first sponsor seems merely concerned with covering the second's bids with a little extra money.

What I take from that is that there are sponsors out there with a 'pay as little as you possibly can' mentality. I imagine those are a majority, and while I guess that's good business, it kinda leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I'm honestly more inclined to go with the sponsor that raised my game's value instead of the one that's covering his bids. It just seems like that way I'd go with someone that's more enthusiastic about my work.

I guess this also means that it may take more time than you first thought to get the right sponsor to notice your game. I was busy with a lot of other stuff, so I was putting off sending e-mails to sponsors that had not checked my game yet, and with some new additions I recently made I want to make sure the game's well balanced before putting the word out further.

I also recently heard that there are sponsors out there with a bad habit of demanding extra changes or additions to a game after their bid is accepted, when such demands were not explained or even mentioned in their bid offer. Personally, I think that kind of behaviour undermines the entire system, and I'm not really willing to put up with that if it does happen to me, unless such demands are minor stuff, like logo placement, ammount of time the logo shows, etc. I'd be more willing to first message my second-best bid and see if they're interested, and then cancel the deal with the first.

[bateleur]

The first sponsor seems merely concerned with covering the second's bids with a little extra money.

This is perfectly normal, I wouldn't take it as an insult.

I also recently heard that there are sponsors out there with a bad habit of demanding extra changes or additions to a game after their bid is accepted

You can protect yourself against this to some extent by holding conversations via the messaging system about what will be expected during the late stages of bidding when you're down to only a couple of bidders in contention. Be very clear that you need to know all requirements in advance and that this will be a factor in which bid you accept.

Also, checking out the sponsor's website can help. For example, if the sponsor has online hiscores and FaceBook sharing for all their games it's a fair bet you'll have to integrate that even if they haven't said so.

[Melly]

The first sponsor seems merely concerned with covering the second's bids with a little extra money.

This is perfectly normal, I wouldn't take it as an insult.

I don't doubt it is. I'm still more inclined to go with the sponsor that raised the game's value.

Also, I recently noticed I can set a bid as my best bid, with a message as to why. I decided to mark the bid I mentioned above, and I was honest as to why in the message. I'm wondering if that was a good idea.

[weasello]

The first sponsor seems merely concerned with covering the second's bids with a little extra money.

This is perfectly normal, I wouldn't take it as an insult.

I don't doubt it is. I'm still more inclined to go with the sponsor that raised the game's value.

Also, I recently noticed I can set a bid as my best bid, with a message as to why. I decided to mark the bid I mentioned above, and I was honest as to why in the message. I'm wondering if that was a good idea.

Just keep in mind that this is an auction house; if someone went to ebay, saw a camera for 2 cents, and then bid "what they thought it was worth" instead, they'd be called "stupid" not "a good shopper."

I do agree with your perspective, though. If a sponsor bids more than just "the minimum to be on top" I do gain respect and trust in them.

However, your deviation from the "norm" may cause some harsh/hasty reactions on other people, and may damage future business relationships. I wrote a blog post along similar veins, when I thought some sponsors were getting upset at my bid-accepting strategy on FGL:
http://www.andymoore.ca/2010/04/value-explained/

[Melly]

I read your article, and Eric's response. Thanks for linking it, it was quite informative. But like he said, FGL is not a place where you accept the highest bid regardless. The bigger issue seems to be with developers that aren't honest with sponsors about what they're willing to pick, which may cause the sponsor financial harm, and greatly strain possibly lucrative relations in the future. I think that as long as I'm honest about which bid I'm seriously considering picking, and why, it should be okay, and nobody should get nasty surprises, even if they don't agree with me.

Also, the bid I'm most willing to pick also offers translations, which could expose my game to a much larger potential market, which seems like a very good thing in my book.

[mirosurabu]

I think that, in general, the Flash game market is already getting pretty saturated. You need to offer something pretty amazing (or incredibly addicting) to impress people.

This is old but I want to reply anyways.

I don't have the same experience as you or moi, mainly because I managed to sell 11 (might be more I am not sure) games one year, most of these being ports, some of which I did, and these games were, well, your regular indiegames.com game.

The average sponsorship money for these games is tiny bit less than middle four figure.

That said, you don't need "amazing" or "incredibly addicting", you just need a good game and contacts.

I have so-so experience with FGL, they won't help with many games they have there, I assume just a fraction of them. There are sponsors who want to pay a lot for good games but there are too many sponsors who just want cheap games there.

[Melly]

I can agree with the idea that some sponsors' desire is to spread their brand and fill up their website with tons of games, which means paying cheap for lots of mediocre games. Though I'm obviously not sure, it's something easy for me to imagine, what with branding being so important.

I have been postponing making a trailer of my game. I probably should as soon as I make the final adjustments to it. I'm not sure I'm good enough at it for it to work out though. For this game I'm not sure I'm willing to spend the time to make that instead of just making more games. I am certainly going to be e-mailing the sponsors that haven't checked it out though. That's another thing I keep postponing.

[mirosurabu]

I have played your game and it's definitively worth at least $2'000 sponsorship money.

One thing I can suggest to make it more attractive to sponsors is to allow keyboard and mouse controls or just mouse if you really want to please them.

[Nix]

It looks like I have a Preview Player invitation that I can send someone. It basically lets you set up a special account on FGL to play and give feedback on games before they are bought by sponsors. Developers read the feedback, so you might be able to have some influence on new Flash games (or at least help them to be bug-free). You have to sign an NDA, and therefore be 18+ (sorry), but if you're interested, let me know and I'll send the invite your way. Here's the template message FGL game me:

I'm inviting you to join the free Preview Player program on FlashGameLicense.com. You'll be able to play my games, as well as the games of other Flash developers, long before they're released! You'll be able to give us feedback and advice, and work directly with developers to make games better. If that sounds fun, sign up now!

Also, this thread seems to have become more of a general Flash Game License thread. Would a name change be worth anything?

[Laufman]

I can agree with the idea that some sponsors' desire is to spread their brand and fill up their website with tons of games, which means paying cheap for lots of mediocre games. Though I'm obviously not sure, it's something easy for me to imagine, what with branding being so important.

I have been postponing making a trailer of my game. I probably should as soon as I make the final adjustments to it. I'm not sure I'm good enough at it for it to work out though. For this game I'm not sure I'm willing to spend the time to make that instead of just making more games. I am certainly going to be e-mailing the sponsors that haven't checked it out though. That's another thing I keep postponing.

I've been dealing with the fun task of selling my game on FGL for 2 months now and it's finally winding down. Melly I would definitely encourage you to send out emails to other sponsors that haven't seen your game yet. I included a flashy brochure about my game with the email to get their attention and most of them came to view the game.

I might as well share my experience with FGL since this was my first time.

- After posting the game we got some great user feedback from other devs in the first week.

- It took about 2 weeks to get our first bid and it was a sad one.  I'm not tooting my own horn here but our game looks pretty good and our game is really polished. So I found the first bid insulting.  That's just how I felt about it. I understand that someone was hoping to get something for nothing, but that shit pissed me off.

- A few weeks later a couple more bids trickled in.  I was really disappointed in the amount of bids we got. Our game had a Editors score of 8 and our Icon was ranked #8 on the entire site.  I thought that would have garnered more bids. I didn't think we'd get a "Steambirds" like reception but better than what we got.

- After 2 months we decided to put our game up for Last Call. Again, not a lot of bids came in.  We got like 2 back and forth bids and then that was it.

- So now we're left deciding between our "Last Call" bid on FGL and an offer we received off site for an exclusive deal from a major sponsor.  It's a tough decision and we're still negotiating.  I will post our decision about the game once we sign a deal.

In summary, FGL has been a little underwhelming compared to the expectations I went in with. I chalk that up to inexperience on my part and relying too much on what I had read. There are always more stories about the successes and not many about the failures.  You can read all the articles you want but sometimes have to just dive into something before you can really get a grasp on how it all works.

I hope my experience helps.

[weasello]

I will post our decision about the game once we sign a deal.

Can I ask why you didn't proxy the off-site bid into FGL? It might have encouraged more bidding.

Can you tell us some numbers? One man's "underwhelming" bid is another man's "awesoemmmm"

[Greender]

From what I've read the experience in flashgamelicense can be a little bit uneven, some people do well and a lot of people can't seem to find a good bid. I've recently uploaded my almost finished game for developer review, I'll put it on for bids in a week or so, I'll tell you about my experience later.

[Laufman]

I will post our decision about the game once we sign a deal.

Can I ask why you didn't proxy the off-site bid into FGL? It might have encouraged more bidding.

Can you tell us some numbers? One man's "underwhelming" bid is another man's "awesoemmmm"

We didn't proxy the bid because we are still negotiating with the sponsor.

As for numbers I won't post anything but let's just say for 2 industry guys who worked on it for 5 weeks the Primary bid from FGL wasn't enough to cover the cost. Sure we can maybe sell a few site locks but we can't bank on that.  Also ad revenue from what I've researched is next to nothing unless your game blows up.