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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignHow to improve "bean counting" in RPG?
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gimymblert
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« on: July 27, 2011, 05:57:11 PM »

Usually I always rant about how much RPG are cluttered with useless item which are only one shop away to be sell without ever being equip. But being at charge to look at rpg design and looming around a bit on some board and discussion it seems that bean counting IS the point for a lot of player.

I usually find bean counting bad because they effectively stale the game because you had to do that while being right in a fight to adapt to the situation with the new loot you just get from killing the 5Th enemy, when to sell useless item, etc... Usually with a bad interface. It would not be such a problem if there wasn't so much obscure bad item you spend 5mn comparing to see if the stat it ups balance with the stat it downs.

However some game like PSO does this just right and seems that bean counting is the entire gameplay:

Readability of effect and value > A lot of game have obscure and unique naming scheme for their games that makes complicate to know what does that. When blade of awesomesauce is actually a lower level weapon than spear of normalspike make hard to get the point of across, which weapon is merchant fodder and which should be kept for slaying enemy. Game like pso spell out the effect in the naming and it give a good evaluation of the value of the weapon, you know you wont pick curse shock gun -5 because it does not sell a lot. Cool and unique name are great and should be kept, but it's better if it doesn't not obfuscate a quick evaluation of the loot, and it should be use to exemplify unique weapon with unique property to make them stand out from the junk. Bonus if before picking and invoking an interface you already had all information on the loot.

Drop > Chop till they drop, loot are sometimes the sole tangible reward we have in some RPG, but most time we wander aimlessly and stumble on them. Stumbling on cool thing is cool, but stumbling in ton of random junk is not. A bit of predictability is good, if the game inspire procedural knowledge, just by looking at the map I could know where some area I never got to would drop on average, predictability don't have to be 100% but significant. It allow area to have meaning beyond simple passage, they became harvest spot, and that's gameplay, it allow for more agency and choice, it allow for some strategy in the looting. If I need a ice dagger, it might be cool to go to ice peak on the north of the map instead of finding generic blade -- there.



Shop > Drop it to the shop, this is the second way to obtain cool things but the average cool, you only get the super cool the same way than junk, loot. Now I would class crafting and other alchemy as functionally the same than shop, except without the gold stop. Now the problem is that in a lot of game shop are randomly scattered and poorly signal as it resemble all other stupid house, it's especially infuriating when you have a bad computer and the only difference became a blurry texture on the brown front of the house, make the shop VISIBLE. It's okay to have obscured shop especially the one that sell generously to the player, but keep an average go to shop with average price for quick unloading and easy to access. Way better if you have a mules system like in torchlight, you might not have the best price but it should do the work when i don't care. It's okay to have "trade market" system but be careful about the lay out so the demand and supply make sense and does not lock essential items, it should be rewarding to engage in the numerous travel in the path of getting rich (hint have a good travel system too), but beware of locking place because of plot point, especially permanently.


Scarcity > Obviously most game have it, generally simply by having a limited inventory you have a scarcity system. But scarcity is only good with readability. If I have to browse the entire interface to know what does just one items right in front of my eyes, something is wrong. With scarcity I'm always deciding which junk to leave and which junk to toss to make room, if the only reward is gold it's pretty brainless, but junk have more than use or lead to more than one reward, the choice became a strategy, for example junk can benefit from trade market with different selling price, you may want to rip quick reward from a nearby shop with low price or think long term and save the junk to sell them at a higher price at some distant place. It also mean that inventory management can be itself a game with decrease/increase of the inventory space or multiple external and fixed storage place to manage.

Also from time to time send a mindfuck item the player can't use yet, have a high value so it have to choose between racking benefice now and latter, however do it too many times and that became hugely annoying, the player should not have to keep but a bunch of "later" items per level he can't equip them. It's okay to have absolutely useless common junk. Scarcity work hand with hand with drop, there might be a way to boost drop of rare item through the spending of a scare resource, so it does not happen to often.

Visual effect > we are player we like fancy, some times an average weapon might be the best weapon simply because it look and play cool. Or we like to have a matching set, which mean substandard build because while that sword is a mighty electric weapon, it happen that the armor has a lot of elemental weakness, but hey! shiny! Of course best is if that fashion sense is actually gameplay and move around a multidimensional charisma stat (guess what the goth like your mighty armor of darkness, hipster might love your random mismatching of attribute that's so artsy and not mainstream).


Best > Of course a game without junk is best, if all item have some use and only wait the right context, couple with scarcity of inventory, the player is force to adapt itself to many situation, without optimum, as the game would have a limited inventory you re force to choose a playstyle instead of simply milking gold and equip best.

What else can be add? How can we improve the bean counting element of RPG?
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moi
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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 06:22:58 PM »

I personally feel that the minecraft paradigm solves a lot of those problems
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