next »

[Blink]

Hey guys! Last time I asked about a gaming music genre here, the answer came to me the same day! So I thought I'd try again with a new question.

I'm working on a platformer right now, and I'd love to get some really catchy and optimistic music for it, it's very inspired by old 2D games and I'd love to bring that essence over too. I know where to turn for chiptune and orchestral blends now, but I still don't know what the style itself is, and I'd love to learn more about it.

Even if there's not a name for it, do you guys have recommendations for stuff? There was a gameboy-like Newgrounds platformer, tower of something, that had really good music like this too. Billy Hatcher has the same optimistic feel to its soundtrack, as does Animal Crossing (but it doesn't have the high energy I'm looking for). Thoughts?

Thanks guys! It's really hard to talk about things we don't have a vocabulary for yet...

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i don't know if it has an official title

maybe something like happy chiptunes?

[Blink]

Children's music is another genre that it can appear in, sometimes, but often it's mixed up with lullabies and whatnot. Happy is definitely a good keyword though

EDIT: Upbeat is another important word. Fun and quirky have also been used as relevant words, but upbeat is the one I think I'm more looking for.

[jamiebell]

It's really hard to talk about things we don't have a vocabulary for yet...

This quote is perfect, and is something I'm discovering to be true more and more every day. I think at least half the job of a composer/sound designer is helping somebody who doesn't speak the "lingo" get to something they're happy with. For example, if somebody asks us to "make it sound more purple."

That said, I wouldn't have it any other way best way to exercise both sides of the brain!

As an aside, is this kind of what you're looking for? ...

http://soundcloud.com/jamie-bell-musicsound/slippery-seal
http://soundcloud.com/jamie-bell-musicsound/maybe-then-non-8bit

[Lauchsuppe]

I'd say that the Mario, Sonic and Kirby Soundtracks are really different from each other as well. However, you did a good job in pointing out the similarities (upbeat, happy, quirky etc.).
It's always hard to verbally talk about music and it's even harder to make oneself concious about what you are actually hearing right now - this also applies to professional musicians of course.
So, I would suggest you to listen to more 2D platformers and make yourself clear about what you like not only about the individual tracks, but also what all those tracks you like have in common. On the other hand, concerning your question, probably every intermediate chiptune composer will know what a typical 2D platformer has to sound like.

What I was trying to point out is, that Mario, Sonic and Kirby OSTs don't fit into a certain genre. And if they do, it's probably the "2D retro platformer" genre (which doesn't really help either).

Some other soundtracks you might want to check out:

The Legendary Starfy Series
Yoshi's Island/Story
Cavestory
Donkey Kong Country (has a slightly different approach but might help figuring out some keyphrases)

[Calum Bowen]

again, i can't offer you the answer to your question of the name of that genre but uncannily that is exactly the kinda sound i'm going for on the Super Ubi Land OST at the moment. Animal Crossing, Mario, Kirby were exactly what i was thinking.

have a listen to the main theme: http://soundcloud.com/calumbowen/super-ubi-land-main-theme
 
In terms of other soundtracks like that... i'd say look at katamari soundtracks but they are all over the place - some of the tracks are upbeat, happy, quirky... how about some of the pikmin music? It's a little more ambient in places but i always lump it together with those sorts of games. LoZ: Wind Waker definitely - the WINDFALL ISLAND music (for me) is the most accurate to the kinda genre you're describing.

[MoritzPGKatz]

Hello,

Music genres the way we know them and the way we talk about them are - historically - an invention that couldn't be less indie.
During the rise of vinyl records, labels and record stores sat together at round tables and quite arbitrarily sorted music into different categories so people buying records could find other similar records faster when browsing. Essentially, the reasoning behind that was that people bought more when they're told what to hear. And it worked out pretty well and still does!

However: Nowadays our music, especially the music in video games, is so diverse and mixed that you might want to ask yourself if talking about genres makes any sense at all.

And just a thought: If there was a way to really describe what's happening in a track with words, we wouldn't need music at all, would we?

That said, keywords like "quirky", "upbeat" or "cartoonish" can help giving a general direction.
Since these are just words though, I've found the best way to communicate about a targeted style is to exchange direct references. YouTube offers a vast amount of "Let's Play"s etc. of pretty much any game, so it's never been as easy - if you right click the video playing, you can even get a link that makes the video start at a certain time to pinpoint a certain sound/movement/motive/whatever.

Be as direct as possible about what you want and need. A good composer will quickly be able to provide you with layouts and with good feedback sessions you'll probably end up with a great and unique sound for your game soon.

Also, ask your composer for his/her input as well. It's his/her job to listen to lots of music, and it may well be they have some reference tracks you never even thought of.
It's also - or it should be without having a separate audio director - a composer's job to determine what mood and pace the gameplay needs, so in some cases they may disagree with the references you provide. Give them some credit and trust and at least consider the ideas they come up with instead.

Regarding a cool example for quirky/cartoonish/upbeat music that works really well within a game, definitely check out Rayman: Origins.
The soundtrack is an awesome, down-to-earth sounding mix of folk, jazz and "traditional" gaming sounds and fits the gameplay and art direction perfectly.

Cheers,
Moritz

[VDZ]

Music genres the way we know them and the way we talk about them are - historically - an invention that couldn't be less indie.
During the rise of vinyl records, labels and record stores sat together at round tables and quite arbitrarily sorted music into different categories so people buying records could find other similar records faster when browsing. Essentially, the reasoning behind that was that people bought more when they're told what to hear. And it worked out pretty well and still does!

Interesting. Do you have some kind of source to back this up?

[JobLeonard]

Yeah, I agree with the boundaries being less strict that genre names would imply, but I'm not really buying that names were arbitrarily decided by publishers.

[MoritzPGKatz]

Music genres the way we know them and the way we talk about them are - historically - an invention that couldn't be less indie.
During the rise of vinyl records, labels and record stores sat together at round tables and quite arbitrarily sorted music into different categories so people buying records could find other similar records faster when browsing. Essentially, the reasoning behind that was that people bought more when they're told what to hear. And it worked out pretty well and still does!

Interesting. Do you have some kind of source to back this up?

It's what I learned in pop music history, a course at my university.
I also read about it in a printed article about a year ago - I don't think I have that magazine anymore, but let me try to find a reference to those meetings on the internets.

...10 minutes later...

No luck yet. I do find blog entries of people mentioning similar articles, but no solid sources - sorry. I'll update this once I've found something I can link to properly.

...Anyhoo, I'm aware that there are other plausible reasons for separating music into different movements and idioms and the attempt of finding sensible partitions is a lot older than the music industry.

A lot of people buy into pretty arbitrary genre separations though, because it's what they "get fed" by the music press and/or other people - without giving the topic the contemplation it deserves.
I'm no different. When people ask me what genres I listen to, I generally don't break into this kind of discussion.

But examples that discredit the common genre concept are all over music history:
Take Heavy Metal. What they called "Heavy Metal" in the '70s would now probably be referred to as "Classic Hardrock" or something.
When people read "Dubstep", most will think of loud aggressive screamy wobble basses and not the chilled two-step/dub mix that the term "Dubstep" referred not even 10 years ago.
Classical music, well... when people talk about it, does that include Romantic music like the operas Tchaikovsky wrote? Strictly speaking, it shouldn't - but some people consider anything played by a real orchestra as "Classical music" even if it was composed just last year.

And that's pretty much what I mean. It's semantics. The terms are just arbitrarily chosen and don't really tell us much about what they convey.
When it's that easy to point to actual music, you should do that - instead of using words trying to describe what you'd like to hear.

If you're interested about the philosophical side of these things, read up on the Naïve Theory and what Gottlob Frege wrote about the matter. Fascinating stuff! But I digress... 

Cheers,
Moritz

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

videogame genres are also largely arbitrary and also largely invented by the industry in order to sell games. i remember seeing little icons indicating different genres of game in nintendo instruction manuals, like a guy swinging over a pit with an aligator in it symbolized 'adventure', a guy with a machine gun was 'action', a spaceship was 'space' and other stuff like that. it was a way to get people to buy more games, they'd be like 'i gotta own all the space games!'

[Blink]

Wow! Thank you guys for all the replies, I'll try to address everyone...

JamieBell: Slippery Seal is definitely in the genre, but sounds more suited to the pace of an RPG/town that a platformer (which I think would have a hair faster of a tempo). And it's really bugging me now... are those Galaga sound effects in the beginning? Maybe Then is similar - I would see it more in a town than a platformer, just due to the speed, but the upbeat aspect matches spot on. Thanks for the links though, they're definitely helping to refine this!

Lauchsuppe: Thanks for all the ideas! I'll try responding to the list to flesh out my ideas more:

Cavestory has a much more ambient soundtrack as I recall, lots of mood setting rather than catchy/memorable beats (although the

definitely doesn't fit into that). Listening to it again: there's a hypnotic aspect in the repetition of drawn out notes that's really not what I'm looking for. Not sure how to phrase that though! I guess it's slower than I'd like, theme song aside?

DKC does the same thing - whether it's the caves or underwater, everything slows down for the atmospheric levels. My memory of Kirby 64 is that every single level has an excited song, whether happy or dark, and I guess that's more what I'm after. That's getting even more specific than just upbeat happy, so progress! :D

Yoshi's Story also has these very slow, calm songs. Again, all upbeat and optimistic like the rest, but I think it's a faster bpm or something that I'm after. I want the music to encourage the player to keep going forward, not stop and take in the environment. (There's a time and a place for that, and it's not my current project! ) Yoshi's Island almost works, most of the music is catchy or moving along rather than lingering and ambient, but it's still on the slower side at times and uses some long fade out notes that make it feel calmer than what I'm looking for. Not a bad second choice if I can't find my style, but it feels closer to Earthbound than Kirby. (quirky and fun, but a calm pace still. Really, I'm more hooked on the word excited)

The Starfy soundtrack sounds more "in awe" than excited. Really not sure how to phrase it outside of that... it's more "Whoa, look how big everything is! Oh wow!" than it is "Let's keep going, c'mon, let's do this!" Driven? I need some help with this one, apparently.

Calum Bowen: Boy, you nailed those three styles. Definitely hearing the Animal Crossing influence pulling it that way too. Windfall is a bit too relaxed - I guess I should take Animal Crossing off my list (again, it really doesn't have the high energy I'm looking for, it's not very excited) and push more for a Kirby and Sonic feel. Pikmin would be too slow too, but Katamari definitely has some relevant stuff -

, Katamari Mambo is close to the tempo I'm looking for, Wanda Wanda keeps up the beat while taking a different tone (which I'm also looking for, ala Kirby's darker levels. That's a pretty slow beat though... so maybe prominence of beat rather than speed?), and I think Season of the Cherry Blossoms is a great example of a slower but *still* moving forward/upbeat/excited-ish song. Might be the percussion keeping you going, but this is about the slowest I'm looking for in the range of the genre...although I think that Kirby Studying the Factory song may actually be slower xD

Moritz: Rayman Origins is another great example to look at, thanks! It feels more similar to Yoshi's Island in a lot of ways, but is definitely faster in a lot of areas. Very southern feeling with all the Jazz, so great for Rayman, not what I'm looking for though. Not sure what other musical genre I would be drawing from though, are Mario/Kirby more classical (orchestrated pieces in my definition, but mostly 50+ years old)? Ragtime influenced in their maintained energy? Sonic is very pop/hip-hop, which is also cool. Not sure! I'll keep working on this. And... is Rayman more orchestrated/movie-cinematic feeling, or is it just me? And don't worry - I'll definitely trust the composer, they know a lot more about what they're doing that I do If you want real examples of stuff I'm looking for though, some works in particular: Grasslands 1 from Kirby 64, Green Hill Zone and Marble Zone from Sonic 1, and Overworld 2/Athletic from New Super Mario Bros. There, a little bit from every era!

Thank you all for so much new material to work with! I'll definitely keep looking at different platformers to narrow my views more.

tl;dr: Forget Animal Crossing, I'm looking for "excited" more within the upbeat genre now, where Katamari's Season of the Cherry Blossoms is the lowest speed/bpm/energy-level I'd like to go. I want the beat strong enough to push the player forward, so I guess I'm looking for optimistic music that drives the player forwards. Thanks everyone for all the stuff so far!