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[SaturnineGames]

Now for all you guys who want keyboard-only support.. Do you want separate IJKL aiming, or do you want me to make the WASD *also* aim? If you chose the second option, I'd need to have another jump key (controls would then be just like Super Metroid).

I think I'd rather the Super Metroid style. I'd probably end up sticking with the mouse over IJKL.

Oh, one other thing I meant to ask. What's the reasoning on the game wanting to switch my monitor to 60Hz? I know I'm the minority, but I'm using a CRT. Dropping the refresh to 60Hz is rough on the eyes. I ignored the warning and played with it at 75Hz. Did I throw off the timing?

[baconman]

I think separate keys is better, so you can shoot something while dodging it .

This, because I think shooting in one direction while travelling in another would best fit the feel of the game better. U/O could make for optimized diagonal shots, as well. A minor "move away from doors within 3 tiles" priority would work just fine - unless they spawn right on top of you, they at least won't be moving at you as you enter.

[phr00t]

How about this: Add a "Configure Controls" option to the main menu, where you can assign keys to things like walking and aiming. You can assign a key to multiple things, like walk left and aim left if you like the "Super Metroid" way of things. This will allow people to configure IJKL or WASD key aiming, and change the fire keys as they see fit. 

[baconman]

How about this: Add a "Configure Controls" option to the main menu, where you can assign keys to things like walking and aiming. You can assign a key to multiple things, like walk left and aim left if you like the "Super Metroid" way of things. This will allow people to configure IJKL or WASD key aiming, and change the fire keys as they see fit. 

Perhaps add a togglebox for "press aim to fire." This way, if you have movement keys seperate from your aiming, you can still aim/fire with one touch; and you don't have to map a "shoot" to each of IJKL (or arrow keys, which I'm sure just as many would opt for).

[phr00t]

v1.6 is here! 

http://sites.google.com/site/gentrieve/

I believe I added all of your suggestions -- check out the changelog and tell me what you think!

Thanks again all!

- Phr00t

[baconman]

  Dl'ing now.

Anticipation... an, tis, i-pay-hay-shun...

[X3N]

Awesome!
..need to get Boot Camp or something to run this on my Mac.

[baconman]

Things I've hit in this build:

Remapping directional keys does *not* remap "map page" keys, which are still set to default. Minor inconvenience, nothing to rant over. You may consider adding them to the config screen, or defaulting them to -/= (IE: +).

The spread shot still works right with mouse aiming, but with manual/key aiming it will shoot all 3 shots in a single direction (shoot a door that way, and you'll see what I mean) - it will still only do one point of damage at enemies upon hitting them, however.

Inputting an off the wall name can result in very interesting experiences - for instance, I used "ZZYXZ" as a name, and the powers went directly to Super Missles/Grenades from the get-go; and allowed a certain entertaining level of sequence-breaking. This is not a complaint, btw, simply an observation. "Quixote" was intriuguing as well. I also noticed that using the same name over resulted in a similar structure in the world, perhaps using a (+day) command to shuffle the letter-effects around a bit could fix that? Or, you may make a mention to try different cool names.

Finally, after hitting a couple of trouble spots, it's kinda occuring to me: Grunts with charge shots? Fair game. Grunts with special shots? Fair game. Grunts with "special charge shots?" o.O Maybe not so much, save for boss rooms. Boss rooms are just about the right level of challenge - maybe adding an optional third boss enemy (if minor/lower level) would do it just right.
__________

I love the new flow of the game, btw. It's a lot more smooth and focused this way and less... volleyball-like. (IE: the older "bounce across the entire map for each key item" approach. You've hit a good balance, here.) Plus, it makes sense to use the Teleporter in wiser ways than I'd mentioned before. I did start a "Full" game before, using an older version, but I have a feeling I'm gonna scrap it in favor of a newly-built one.

[phr00t]

Remapping directional keys does *not* remap "map page" keys, which are still set to default. Minor inconvenience, nothing to rant over. You may consider adding them to the config screen, or defaulting them to -/= (IE: +).

Ahhh, good point. I will probably just make the map selection use whatever you set for walk left/right.

The spread shot still works right with mouse aiming, but with manual/key aiming it will shoot all 3 shots in a single direction (shoot a door that way, and you'll see what I mean) - it will still only do one point of damage at enemies upon hitting them, however.

I will look into this...

Inputting an off the wall name can result in very interesting experiences - for instance, I used "ZZYXZ" as a name, and the powers went directly to Super Missles/Grenades from the get-go; and allowed a certain entertaining level of sequence-breaking. Grin  This is not a complaint, btw, simply an observation. "Quixote" was intriuguing as well. I also noticed that using the same name over resulted in a similar structure in the world, perhaps using a (+day) command to shuffle the letter-effects around a bit could fix that? Or, you may make a mention to try different cool names.

Now this is weird.. the name you use should have no effect on world generation or powerups.  Is there a way to reproduce this, or may it just be an odd coincidence with the random number generator? A new random seed is used, based off the time, every time you start the program.

Grunts with "special charge shots?" o.O Maybe not so much, save for boss rooms.

Hrm.. Grunts with "special charge shots" do not show up until later in the game, after you (hopefully) have found a few health packs and weapons. If I didn't give the grunts special charge shots, that'd be one less thing that would differentiate enemies as you progress  I know when I enter a room with freezing enemies.. I have to think differently -- can't just charge them!

[baconman]

Well, on my "full game" restart (3.5 hours @ 87%), I simply added three "Xs" to the front of one of my usual screennames. The result: Half of the powerups were missile expansions. I have over 100 of them by game's end, one of them being "the starter item." Try it, or something like that. I didn't think it did either, but it seems somewhat consistent. I'm not sure it effects map generation (that may have been coincidence), but just the powerups, perhaps.

Maybe just tuning special charge shots a little later on (after factoring normal charge shots?) could work; I did have one or two games with the freezers, and BEFORE SHIELDS. TBH, I couldn't get much further, even ducking for cover constantly, or simply trying to dodge through them. (Latest instance: About 5 items in, no Charge Shots or Shields, and with at least 10 of them, all flying. Two of the items are Rollerball/RB Jump... but no bombs, either. I guess having the possiblity of losing is just the chance you have to take! That does kinda add to the excitement when a player DOES finally win.)

Finally, one more easy-as-pie-to-implement item idea (high-tier like Mega Jump) = Ultra Beam. Basically, it replaces the Charge Beam with always-charged shots; usually found after the Super (Missle/Grenade/Bomb) kinds of weapons, maybe the very last one before you hit the generator (IE: you only use it for the last few corridors and to escape; like Samus does with the Hyper Beam).


You having a lot of fun with it, too?

[phr00t]

Well, on my "full game" restart (3.5 hours @ 87%), I simply added three "Xs" to the front of one of my usual screennames. The result: Half of the powerups were missile expansions. I have over 100 of them by game's end, one of them being "the starter item." Try it, or something like that. I didn't think it did either, but it seems somewhat consistent. I'm not sure it effects map generation (that may have been coincidence), but just the powerups, perhaps.

Hrm... having a different name will create a new map folder and player file.. the game *should* have no connection to the previous game files, but I will look into it...

Maybe just tuning special charge shots a little later on (after factoring normal charge shots?) could work; I did have one or two games with the freezers, and BEFORE SHIELDS. WTF  TBH, I couldn't get much further, even ducking for cover constantly, or simply trying to dodge through them. (Latest instance: About 5 items in, no Charge Shots or Shields, and with at least 10 of them, all flying. Two of the items are Rollerball/RB Jump... but no bombs, either. I guess having the possiblity of losing is just the chance you have to take! That does kinda add to the excitement when a player DOES finally win.)

You hit the nail on the head with the last sentence... think of Spelunky. You only get 3 (or 4?) health points -- if you die, you die. No saving games or keeping items. However, beating Spelunky is quite the accomplishment. If I "nerfed" all of the enemies to make sure they were easily beatable no matter what you have, then much of the challenge of the game, and the accomplishment of beating it, would be gone. Anyway, long story short -- I need some really hard rooms!

Finally, one more easy-as-pie-to-implement item idea (high-tier like Mega Jump) = Ultra Beam. Basically, it replaces the Charge Beam with always-charged shots; usually found after the Super (Missle/Grenade/Bomb) kinds of weapons, maybe the very last one before you hit the generator (IE: you only use it for the last few corridors and to escape; like Samus does with the Hyper Beam).

Oooooo, I like this idea. I believe I will just make having the generator give you this power. You can think of it as the generator is auto-charging your shots 

You having a lot of fun with it, too?

Of course 

[phr00t]

v1.6.1 has been uploaded! 

http://sites.google.com/site/gentrieve/

[baconman]

Alternative tileset/item GFX for Gentrieve available here.

[phr00t]

Wow! Very cool! I will add this to the homepage :-)

EDIT: Here it is!

https://sites.google.com/site/gentrieve/tile-sets

Thank you very much :-)

[X3N]

Speaking of really hard rooms, how do you decide to scale the difficulty "further" into the game?
I'd like to hear you talk about the logic you used, decisions you made etc.

[phr00t]

A room's difficulty is based on what items are required to get to that room. For instance, the first few rooms require no items, so the difficulty rating for that room is "0". After taking a few paths that require more items, the difficulty rating increases.

The difficulty rating determines what type of enemies are placed. Higher difficulty ratings give more health to enemies and stronger weapons. There are 4 or 5 "tiers" of enemies with separate graphics for each. Tier 1 enemies are low-difficulty, and generally have a single small weapon (or none) and low health. Tier 4/5 enemies have lots of health, 1 or 2 weapons and 1 or 2 special abilities (like shields or "mega jump").

Boss rooms get a difficulty rating multiplier. 

"Really hard rooms" are just a result of the randomness of the game... there is a little "play" on the difficulty rating, so some rooms might just get generated with difficult terrain *and* a high difficulty rating.

Speaking of really hard rooms, how do you decide to scale the difficulty "further" into the game?
I'd like to hear you talk about the logic you used, decisions you made etc.

[phr00t]

I fixed a few very minor things with baconman's tiles (flipped the rocket / brightened up the "ball" image etc.):

https://sites.google.com/site/gentrieve/tile-sets

[baconman]

Phr00t's been really cool, letting me tinker a bit with the source to his project. I'm maybe one little fix-up or so away from a finalized milestone release of Gentrieve, and could use a bit of gameplay/balance feedback. There's one or two little "sticking" situations that are still being ironed out, but it only crops up every 10-15 sessions or so. And now thanks to him helping me a bit with a couple of commands, this new release should be completely stable!

What's New:

-Some enemies can dash, and/or drop bombs now!
-Game can be much more challenging now (but totally fair!), for a number of factors, like increased damage from spikes and lava; and better balanced health/life-ups.
-There's been a bit of change regarding lava, water, and the suits; to make them all more interesting in various combinations.
-Over a dozen new, unique room types! Including ones that create a sense of flow within them; and more randomizable factors that make items like Rollerball/Jump and Grappling Hook a lot more fun to mess around with.
-Some tweaks to a few weapons to make combat more interesting now, too!
-As an experiment, I've removed the weapon-based doors from the middle of the trans rooms, so you can explore a bit further, but normal weapon-doors may still appear to block you later.

Download and test drive it today! And let me know what you think of it.


Oh, graphics are totally externalized still, and are (mostly) greyscale GIFs, facing left. Additional themes/screenpacks (or assistance with them) would be greatly appreciated as well! In fact, graphical polish and implementing alternate themes is what the goal of v.1.8 will be all about, when I get to it.

[baconman]

Okay, fixed a couple of mapping bugs and balance issues, and added in another few cell types like cliffs.