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[Batmanifestdestiny]

Someone take my temperature, because so far I'm having more fun with a low-level programming language than I've had with C++!  I've been learning to program in L.in.oleum, a relatively new programming language with similar speeds and power to ASM, but this one is cross platform

you can find it at anywherebb.com


PLEASE NOTE:
this is not one of those "you'll learn it faster then legos" programming languages.  The finest way to put this is the fact that the tutorial I'm using right now has to explain CPU memory and registers before your first program

But yeah, I've been enjoying my self with the power I feel from writing in something very near to Assembly

[Aquin]

That sounds pretty cool. 

I'm kinda worried though.  If you have to concern yourself with the minutae of such low-level code... wouldn't you have to spend *much* more time trying to get the same thing to work?

Perhaps I'm simply confused on the matter.  I think I'm gonna check linoleum thingy for meself.

[Mr. Yes]

Neat. I can't see myself actually using it, but it does seem kind of fun.

[Gold Cray]

That sounds pretty cool. 

I'm kinda worried though.  If you have to concern yourself with the minutae of such low-level code... wouldn't you have to spend *much* more time trying to get the same thing to work?

Perhaps I'm simply confused on the matter.  I think I'm gonna check linoleum thingy for meself.

Subroutines.

But still, yes. The only real reasons to use asm anymore are either because it's fun or because you're coding for a microcontroller (or similar) with 64KiB of (mostly EEPROM) memory.

If you really want to get low level, though, try using Verilog. Any lower and you'll have to get rid of the computer entirely.

[saimo]

Being an assembly lover, I'm always interested in this kind of things
However, designing a universal assembly language that performs well on many architectures is pretty hopeless, unless the architectures are very similar. F.ex., L.in.oleum "allows direct access to five general-purpose registers", which means that it won't exploit to the maximum CPUs that have more registers  - think of PPCs or even old M680x0s, which have 8 data registers and 8 address registers (and the difference between them is very blurred, so that it isn't that wrong to consider them almost like 16 general-purpose registers). Not to mention other features like addressing modes, degree of RISC-/CISC-iness, etc. In many cases C sources could yield more performing binaries.
I applaud the attempt, but I can't see it a winning one.

[BorisTheBrave]

We've reached the point where compilers (at least C and fortran compilers) can usually do a better job than hand optimization can. Even ignoring the unifying aspect of using one assembler for different architecture, proper register use, and subtleties like cache lines make it very hard to design the fastest possible code.

But I get the impression these people are more in it for the retro fun, than trying to get a speed gain. It reminds me of the demoscene. Still, I personally wouldn't touch anything closer to the metal than C++ with a 10 foot pole.

[Batmanifestdestiny]

Being an assembly lover, I'm always interested in this kind of things
However, designing a universal assembly language that performs well on many architectures is pretty hopeless, unless the architectures are very similar. F.ex., L.in.oleum "allows direct access to five general-purpose registers", which means that it won't exploit to the maximum CPUs that have more registers  - think of PPCs or even old M680x0s, which have 8 data registers and 8 address registers (and the difference between them is very blurred, so that it isn't that wrong to consider them almost like 16 general-purpose registers). Not to mention other features like addressing modes, degree of RISC-/CISC-iness, etc. In many cases C sources could yield more performing binaries.
I applaud the attempt, but I can't see it a winning one.

The five registers are just the noob registers that are easiest to access   Pursonally, I've been using 15 registers and whatnot for matrices and vectors and whatnot :D

And yes, I'm mainly doing it for fun.  Something about this language just seems a lot less stuffy than C++, which is what I've been doing.  Not to mention that full 3D games have been made on this using less than 1 MB 

[moi]

Yeah low level is cool.
Right now I'm playing with BasiEgaXorz, the basic for genesis. It's a basic, but the way you use it is more like an assembler language. It's just like a set of macros for the genesis hardware.
Not only is it more fun, but I find I can be actually more productive than with a higher level language.

[Matt Thorson]

I had a lot of fun doing Assembly in University (wrote Tron and Pong clones for my final project), but I wouldn't want to use it for a personal project.  It would take forever to get anything done.

[gwar]

Is Lego really plural?

[Gold Cray]

One of the really fun things about assembly is that you can easily write programs that rewrite themselves. One of my first ASM programs for my microcontroller was a cylon eye that worked by changing a few opcodes to change the direction of the light. I tried this with C++ once, but I didn't have any luck. Now that I know some more about how it's compiled, though, I might have more luck.

[Batmanifestdestiny]

Is Lego really plural?

So far I've already made a program that draws lines 


The only thing that weirds me out is that with this language it's easier to make graphical programs than it is to make text-based stuff

All I have to do now is figure out interaction and animation, and I oughtta be able to actually make stuff for compos and whatnot! 


And what was that about an eye?