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[Jason Bakker]

Has anyone mentioned Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood, the Bioware Sonic game? That felt to me like a Bioware "cover" of Sonic - here's what happens if we take the Sonic world and mash it up with a Bioware style game.

That said, I think there's a few things limiting video game covers:
- Companies are super protective of their IP.
- Developers in general aren't controlled by auteurs who choose what they want to create, and can pump out an album of games a year.
- It doesn't take a far shorter amount of time to make a cover game than to make an original game.

I mean, it seems like an unfair comparison. For a lot of musicians, simply enjoying a song they love means learning how to play it and sing it in their own way, and then releasing the cover version is just a byproduct of that. For a game developer I can see them wanting to have that process, but there's such a difference in development timescale between pieces of music and video games that if you want to make anything that doesn't just feel like an off-brand title it would be a huge, huge investment.

Ed: Furthermore, music has been around for way longer. Why would you make a cover of a game when there's so much obviously untapped territory in video games? At least for me, that's a major part of the draw of development - it's a new medium, and there's so much more for us to do!

[Chris Whitman]

i can easily see and feel the differences between a infinity ward call of duty and a treyarch developed call of duty, thnx

Yeah, I was probably being a little harsh. Point is, though, games produced by large teams are still significantly less idiosyncratic than games developed by one or two people. I mean, I can tell the difference between Transformers and Avatar, but something like Ink certainly had a style you wouldn't find in any film from a large production studio (including the very rough spots, obviously).

I think individual touches just tend to get suppressed somewhat the more people you add to any particular project.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

eva hates the word 'style' though -- she once said to me that when people say style they mean cell shading

[Chris Whitman]

Ha! Yeah, I can see that. I think the problem is that style is really just what you do when you aren't specifically trying to do anything out of the ordinary.

Unfortunately, game reviewers tend to conflate style with "visual gimmick."

[BlueSweatshirt]

The Underside is a great example of what the OP is talking about, I think~

Also: Flower had style.

[deathtotheweird]

Ok, then what would be a good example of Mario adapted to another developer's style? (Or any other game)

I'd say check out Hempuli's games FallOver, Addicsjon, GENERIC platformer.

[gimymblert]

At least! 

[team_q]

Now, that fan game, is getting close. If only that team's style wasn't Sonic fan games(which are dark). It would be more interesting.

That Game Company does have a style. I would love to see them tackle Something like, I dunno, Aquaria or something even wilder.

Couple of things, I don't really worry too much about companies and IP protection when I talk about this, I don't think this is something to do to make money. I'm thinking of the Art of the damn thing. Ask DJ Dangermouse how towing the line of legality could work out.

[gunmaggot]

Isn't that how Sonic games came to be, more or less?

I know this has been dealt with, but this is a very crazy opinion.  Sonic and Mario are about as different as two games in a genre can be.

Covers would have to be a fan game/rom hack.  Ripoffs are never seen as flattering in videogames.

How many companies have a distinct style? Sega did once

I don't know - is '90s!!!!!' a style?

[gunmaggot]

Also, the best fangame/romhack ever is Miss Bubble 2.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

sega had a unique style largely because the genesis had a very recognizable palette and a very recognizable set of musical instruments, so most genesis games sounded and looked alike

[gimymblert]

Well regarding sega game history, from toe jam and earl or outrun to crazy taxi, samba de amigo or space channel five, we still see a distinct a pretty distinct style. It share common point with style from the same era but was distinct enough to know you are in front of a sega game by the graphism alone.

I once play a monkey ball (don't remember which one) i despite all the fidelity it felt off, i learn after it was made by an external studio.

[gunmaggot]

Sega is the most eclectic major game publisher I can think of in terms of style, though - only Sony comes close.  Looking back on their catalogue, the only common themes I can see through all their stuff is that they're
A) sort of reactionary - they needed an answer to every single hit game out there (this is probably due to their big arcade presence), often also looking outwards to non-gaming trends for inspiration and
B) always on the cutting edge, visually and technologically.  
Look at Comix Zone, Sonic CD, Toejam and Earl, Streets of Rage, Ecco the Dolphin, the Virtua series' capitalisation on the hopes people placed in virtual reality, those dire interactive movies - Sega in the 90s was more 90s than Fido Dido (setting aside that Fido Dido was created in the 80s).  Even Space Channel 5 and Jet Set Radio, which are more 00-era games feel like 90s games.  It's a weird thing, but it's definitely there.  
I see what you mean about the Genesis' palette, but it's interesting that their most recognisable Genesis games (Sonic) feel more colourful than the average Genny title.
I think what Sega tapped into the zeitgeist better than anybody (until Sony came along), and I guess that is a recogniseable style, but is it their style?

[Mitchard]

sega had a unique style largely because the genesis had a very recognizable palette and a very recognizable set of musical instruments, so most genesis games sounded and looked alike

No, sega's 'style' is most evident in its Arcade/Saturn/Dreamcast games and is pretty far removed from anything they did on the Mega Drive.

I'm not sure if I can quantify it, but there is definitely something that makes games a different as Panzer Dragoon, OutRun and Jet Set Radio feel very 'Sega-y'.

[gimymblert]

Not so far removed but yeah it was reinforce in his later year, somekind  edgy trendy conceptual, thay had "atmosphere". Now it's just gone away sadly.

[Richard Kain]

"Covering" a game design that some one else came up with is a very good idea from a business perspective. Since the title in question is based off of a proven game design, there is less risk. You can tell, almost from the beginning, that the game will be entertaining. You also have something tangible to point to when pitching your game idea, even if you don't have a working prototype ready. And of course, a considerable portion of the work is already done. There is very little need for additional design, most of what you will be working on is simple production.

This is exactly why so many beginning programmers will create their own version of an existing game as one of their earliest projects. It's also why there are so many Tetris clones out there.

Personally, I've always wanted to "cover" Hunter Hunted. It's a great game with some sweet mechanics. But I felt that it suffered somewhat from the artistic style they used. I think a new version of this game with my own art style applied to it would be pretty sweet.

[mirosurabu]

Might be good theme for a competition.

"Remix competition"

[Mikademus]

What I meant is that Sonic games seem to be Mario games with another "attitude".

I think it is rather a bit the other way around: Banjo Kazooie was a cover of Sonic. All the platforms wanted their trademark platformers that was part of their identity. The Famicon had the Red Plumber, SEGA Master System had Kid Icarus and Alex Kidd, as well as Sonic, later. Perhaps Nintendo won the first console war because they were better at creating a brand identity through their iconic characters. I don't doubt that Sonic was inspired by Mario with regards to collecting coins/rings, but Sonic actually innovated in an already stale platform genre and was special enough that Sony copied much of it in Crash Bandicoot (the speed and crazy alternative modes of transportation), which in turn was copied by Banjo Kazooie (iirc). I think most current games of the type, such as Rachet and Clank, can more easily trace their lineage to Sonic and Crash than to Mario.

As for "covering other's games", generally the Market and some notorious Big Players in particular dislike it. I'm thinking of Activision and "The Silver Lining" and Electrionic Arts and the numerous Ultima remakes and fangames that have been shut down. So cover too closely and you'll either be named a plagiariser or be shut down, but reskin enough before the trend has run out and you're set. Which is part of why I don't have much over for the AAA market.

[gunmaggot]

What I meant is that Sonic games seem to be Mario games with another "attitude".

I think it is rather a bit the other way around: Banjo Kazooie was a cover of Sonic. All the platforms wanted their trademark platformers that was part of their identity. The Famicon had the Red Plumber, SEGA Master System had Kid Icarus and Alex Kidd, as well as Sonic, later. Perhaps Nintendo won the first console war because they were better at creating a brand identity through their iconic characters. I don't doubt that Sonic was inspired by Mario with regards to collecting coins/rings, but Sonic actually innovated in an already stale platform genre and was special enough that Sony copied much of it in Crash Bandicoot (the speed and crazy alternative modes of transportation), which in turn was copied by Banjo Kazooie (iirc). I think most current games of the type, such as Rachet and Clank, can more easily trace their lineage to Sonic and Crash than to Mario.

As for "covering other's games", generally the Market and some notorious Big Players in particular dislike it. I'm thinking of Activision and "The Silver Lining" and Electrionic Arts and the numerous Ultima remakes and fangames that have been shut down. So cover too closely and you'll either be named a plagiariser or be shut down, but reskin enough before the trend has run out and you're set. Which is part of why I don't have much over for the AAA market.

Lot of this made me go ???  Banjo Kazooie was pretty clearly a riff on Mario 64, and the character design was about as far from Sonic as you can get while still being mammal-related.  Banjo firmly belongs in the 'forgettable wave of 90s animal platformer mascots' but the 'tude was not played up like it was with Sonic/Crash/Bubsy/Gex etc.  Crash was clearly riding the wave of small-mammal-with-attitude that Sonic kicked off but everything else was basically Donkey Kong Country in 3D.  DKC, I think, did borrow a bit from Sonic but only in the loosest sense.  Kid Icarus was an NES game.  Also, Crash wasn't a Sony game - but Sony did capitalise on his popularity by pushing the character as a mascot.
You're right that Sonic wasn't a Mario cover - that's just a nutty position.  Alex Kidd was closer, but 'cover' does not mean 'took inspiration from'.
Also, the 'AAA market' is way less rife with clones than the indiespace - but I'm not sure I understand what you were saying in that part.

[Captain_404]

Banjo firmly belongs in the 'forgettable wave of 90s animal platformer mascots'

I love the banjo games! They're part of the reason I make games today! They're part of the reason I ever played games at all!


...sorry, sorry... </offTopic>