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[GameRoom]

What about in An Untitled Story in the CloudRun area? It warps you to a certain screen when you fall, no matter where you are.

[SirNiko]

Y'know, I don't think anyone mentioned the original Super Mario Bros. Those castles that went on forever unless you followed a super-specific (and totally hidden) path to get through?

I liked the idea, in a way, but it made no sense. Being a Nintendo Power kid, of course, I never actually saw any of them but the last one (thanks warp zones!) and then I had a stratagy guide to get through that. But if that game came out now, today? I'd have wandered aimlessly trying to guess at the right path and feeling frustrated you're given no clues except that it's probably the least convenient route possible.

-SirNiko

[Derakon]

They aren't totally unclued, actually. Depending on the path you take, you either get to see the next segment of the level, or you're looped back to the start. Once you figure out that the first segment must be navigated in a specific pattern to reach the second segment, you've figured out the main puzzle of the level (i.e. that a specific path is needed to traverse it); the rest is just trial and error as you figure out what that path is. An experienced game can make educated guesses as to what the path is, too, based on the obstacles. I.e. "Hm, if I go along the top, then it's straightforward, but taking the bottom path requires me to jump over lava pits and dodge this rotating bar of fire. I'd better take the bottom path."

The remake for SNES added a "ding" sound when you go down the right path an a buzzer if you take a wrong turn, but these aren't really necessary -- just helpful.

[Evan Balster]

Untitled's thing isn't nearly as much of a mindfuck as what's going on in a lot of these other games.

Honestly, other than unintuitive 'maps', impossible spaces aren't done that much in 2D games.  It's a shame.  *scheme*

[SirNiko]

There really aren't too many different ways of implementing impossible spaces, I think. The idea of rooms occupying the same space is just about the maximum extent you can go.

Portal pretty much did this as well, although it wasn't so much of a trick since it constituted the majority of the gameplay.

-SirNiko

[Ben_Hurr]

There really aren't too many different ways of implementing impossible spaces, I think. The idea of rooms occupying the same space is just about the maximum extent you can go.

Portal pretty much did this as well, although it wasn't so much of a trick since it constituted the majority of the gameplay.

-SirNiko

That's right, rooms occupying the same space is hard to do in 3D games, since they kind of rely on sensical geometry.  You'd have to make some kind of system that joins matching surfaces so you can walk through, much like Portal.

[Evan Balster]

Alexander Bruce will discover this topic and explode you all with his non-euclidean space.

[Derakon]

There really aren't too many different ways of implementing impossible spaces, I think. The idea of rooms occupying the same space is just about the maximum extent you can go.

Portal pretty much did this as well, although it wasn't so much of a trick since it constituted the majority of the gameplay.

-SirNiko

That's right, rooms occupying the same space is hard to do in 3D games, since they kind of rely on sensical geometry.  You'd have to make some kind of system that joins matching surfaces so you can walk through, much like Portal.

I seem to recall reading that Half-Life 1's map is non-Euclidean. They just did that by unloading zones and then loading new zones that happen to occupy the same physical space. The player doesn't generally notice because the map twists and turns so much (and is all underground) that it's practically impossible to keep track of where you are in 3D space.

[Core Xii]

Half-Life is not like that... The map editor Valve uses requires sensible space. Well, per map it does. Across different maps switched on loading zones, they could overlap, yes. But it's not a continuous space.

3D games are actually really easy to make nonsensical because they use portal rendering techniques - The difficulty comes with producing content: It's hard to model a level like that with most tools.

[Derakon]

Right, my point was that if you concatenated all of the different maps into one giant Black Mesa Complex, you'd end up with a four-dimensional mess.

[Core Xii]

Right, my point was that if you concatenated all of the different maps into one giant Black Mesa Complex, you'd end up with a four-dimensional mess.

You know, I'd almost pay to see that.

[Derakon]

Right, my point was that if you concatenated all of the different maps into one giant Black Mesa Complex, you'd end up with a four-dimensional mess.

You know, I'd almost pay to see that.

Fortunately, a 2D projection of the map is freely available (linked from here).

[Core Xii]

Now that is neat. If only we had a 3D projection.

[GameRoom]

But if that game came out now, today?

That effect was also done in NSMBWii.

[SirNiko]

But if that game came out now, today?

That effect was also done in NSMBWii.

Man, I need to get that game. The price needs to start dropping.

-SirNiko

[PleasingFungus]

Likewise with Dungeon Siege 1, actually. They'd wanted to put teleporters in the game (so you could go back to town without walking all the way, etc), but one of the reasons they didn't is because the map was non-Euclidean, so one coordinate could refer to multiple areas. The player wouldn't notice because there was constant twisting and turning and underground delving.