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[gimymblert]

Well not exactly, it's a game more symbolic than everything, it's not a game necessarily ABOUT the "west indies" but a game we can identify with. It's about the distinctive feeling of what we think we are.

People here think, because we are so small and with such a tragic story, that we cannot do something worthwhile here. And the only ambition is to be as good as what is abroad in term of production value. We evidently have not as much resources and structure to support triple AAA looking and incitive to keep talent. And the few talent we have must left, which emptied mechanically the land. My stance is to build something that will build more confidence and less comparison to oversea. That mean create things with identity closure while actually opening door to new things and approach. Things that have an internal closure seems to stand by their own, whatever the production value. They build they own standard, think manga (6 image seconds) VS disney (24 image second), or simply Disney (hi production value) vs Tex avery (pure fun and precise timing).

On a personal level, it's also an learning process for 3D game. It serves both

[Newbrof]

I love how The Path (PC, Tale of Tales) did communicate with the player without using cut scenes. The Path was the best game of 2009 for me. If you want a toy-game (shooters, mario, racing, sports), you don't need good stories or a lot of cutscenes (Modern Warfare 2). If you do want to tell a story (primarily), I would prefer no cutscenes at all (or audio files, thanks Bioshock).

[droqen]

Portal?

---> Not exactly story-driven, but you definitely get a good feel for things.

[FatHat]

I love how The Path (PC, Tale of Tales) did communicate with the player without using cut scenes. The Path was the best game of 2009 for me. If you want a toy-game (shooters, mario, racing, sports), you don't need good stories or a lot of cutscenes (Modern Warfare 2). If you do want to tell a story (primarily), I would prefer no cutscenes at all (or audio files, thanks Bioshock).

But... but... the path was full of cutscenes, pretty much the entire game involved walking from one cutscene to another in order to get raped. 

[Bree]

One interesting use of cutscenes I recently encountered is in Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter (and by recently, I mean that I just started playing the game today). There are very few save points, and you have to have a Save Token in order to use it, but if when you do die, you have the option of using what the game calls Scenario Overlay, or SOL for short. You restart the entire game, but keep your old stats and items. Aside from making the game easier to beat each time, the game unlocks extra content- certain doors unlock, new items appear, and, most importantly, there are new cutscenes sprinkled throughout. These extra snippets (helpfully labeled with a special SOL icon) add extra background to the story, and help flesh out the world and characters.

It'd be interesting to see a game take full advantage of this- someone mentioned on the Icebergvania thread their idea for a game that you could beat within a matter of minutes, but performing a certain action would reveal a larger portion of the game. It'd be cool to see a developer try something like this while including a narrative- the initial story is a very straightforward ABC plotline, but as the player progresses, they uncover more information about the story, gaining a new perspective on it each time.

[SirNiko]

I recently finished Metal Max Returns (for the SNES, didn't come out in English, so you need to get a patch to translate it) and I gotta say, it's pretty spot-on regarding a game where the player and character share motivations without the need for cutscenes.

It's not cutscene-free, mind you, but it's pretty sparse. About a one-minute intro showing you getting kicked out of home. Thirty seconds to introduce you to the "rival" bounty hunter when you find your first tank. Just enough to immerse you without taking you out of the game.

One part of the game has you exploring an old cave by the beach. There's a rumor of a tank buried there. You dive down deep in the cave, killing monsters and exploring side passages, and at the bottom you can dig up the rusted out remains of the tank to tow back to town for repairs. You don't go there because of a legend, or the character's in love, or for one of a million potential macguffins. You go down the cave because there's a tank there and you want the tank to use it. Back in town I put the engine in the tank, upgraded the chassis to use a new weapon, and I was off using my prize. Me and my character were in perfect unison in our purpose: to get a bitchin' new tank to use to kill monsters to earn money to make my tank even more bitchin'.

The main plot point of the game is discovering the reason the world was nearly destroyed. Rather than plodding this through cutscenes, you discover this by exploring ruins, uncovering old computers or ancient notebooks and working out the plot yourself. At the end, when you defeat the final boss, you might have riddled it all out and become ready for a fight... or maybe you didn't, and you stumble across the astonishing foe simply because you were unlocking doors to see what is beyond them. Either way, you feel like YOU were the one who solved the mystery, not the characters solving the mystery and spitting it in your mouth like a mother bird feeding her child.

Metal Max Returns all in all a really satisfying game that breaks the JRPG stereotype of goofy cutscenes and disconnected gameplay and plot.

I'm hoping the PS2 sequel is the same kind of gameplay. For $5 at gamestop, it seems like a bargain.

-SirNiko

[Jason Bakker]

I dunno if I have bad taste or something but I thought that scene was really powerful. It's also the only time in the game control is taken completely out of your hands (save for the intro and outro cutscenes).

Nope, you're right - it's awesome I think much of the criticism of that scene (and of Bioshock's general flow) were less "this game is crap" criticisms and more explorations of how that scene (and the subsequent... changes) affect the flow of the story, and whether they enhance or ultimately undermine the overarching themes of the game.

[Bree]

I still think it would have been even more powerful if they had kept the user interface up during the scene, so that you really felt like your character was out of your control.

[gimymblert]

One interesting use of cutscenes I recently encountered is in Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter (and by recently, I mean that I just started playing the game today). There are very few save points, and you have to have a Save Token in order to use it, but if when you do die, you have the option of using what the game calls Scenario Overlay, or SOL for short. You restart the entire game, but keep your old stats and items. Aside from making the game easier to beat each time, the game unlocks extra content- certain doors unlock, new items appear, and, most importantly, there are new cutscenes sprinkled throughout. These extra snippets (helpfully labeled with a special SOL icon) add extra background to the story, and help flesh out the world and characters.

It'd be interesting to see a game take full advantage of this- someone mentioned on the Icebergvania thread their idea for a game that you could beat within a matter of minutes, but performing a certain action would reveal a larger portion of the game. It'd be cool to see a developer try something like this while including a narrative- the initial story is a very straightforward ABC plotline, but as the player progresses, they uncover more information about the story, gaining a new perspective on it each time.

Isn't zelda majora's mask does that?

[GreyGriffin]

This may be old school, but can you call Planescape Torment's extensive dialogue exchanges cutscenes?  Many of them are infodumps, but those are often skippable without impacting the story, and much of the game's discovery and interaction (ergo, gameplay) comes from those dialogue choices.  The combat is just there between interesting people to talk to.

[siegarettes]

Here's and interesting idea: How about a story that occurs during gameplay?

For example, you may be running through a field while fighting and your partners talk to you while you do so. Maybe they say certain things during boss fights about what's going on, or suggest things without interrupting the gameplay?

It would be like that one long take in Hard Boiled were Tequila and his partner engage in conversation and firefights, and maybe a bit more integrated.

[Calabi]

I mostly hate cutscenes but one reason for them to exist is to provide the player with a break.  Most action films have that, the quiet moments of character development and where the audience can relax before the imminent build ups to action(although films dont seem to be doing that so much at the moment).

I think any decent action game needs ways to provide the player with ways to relax away from the general meat of the game.  You need to do it because if you just have constant action(perhaps even other games), the player will end up fatigued alot quicker than they normally would and subsequent events you want to have a big impact on the player wont have such an impact because they have become numb to the action. 

I think in action games cutscenes work like tension releasers, although most people creating games havent realised that.  Some games you fight a boss and they dont go to a cutscene, you cant relax, you end up anxious because you dont know what more they may throw at you, and that you might fail even after so much effort.

So I think we need cutscenes unless game developers can be more reliable and come up with ways the player knows he can relax, or have a break from that game mechanic.

[SirNiko]

I mostly hate cutscenes but one reason for them to exist is to provide the player with a break.  Most action films have that, the quiet moments of character development and where the audience can relax before the imminent build ups to action(although films dont seem to be doing that so much at the moment).

I think any decent action game needs ways to provide the player with ways to relax away from the general meat of the game.  You need to do it because if you just have constant action(perhaps even other games), the player will end up fatigued alot quicker than they normally would and subsequent events you want to have a big impact on the player wont have such an impact because they have become numb to the action. 

I think in action games cutscenes work like tension releasers, although most people creating games havent realised that.  Some games you fight a boss and they dont go to a cutscene, you cant relax, you end up anxious because you dont know what more they may throw at you, and that you might fail even after so much effort.

So I think we need cutscenes unless game developers can be more reliable and come up with ways the player knows he can relax, or have a break from that game mechanic.

The only problem is that movies are all taken in during a single two hour binge. This means the director can plan out the entire two hour session.

In a game, you're looking at a series of play sessions that could end and begin anywhere. I, as a player, could work in those rest periods by saving the game after a tough boss and doing something else. In that case, coming back and getting a ream of dialogue is offputting, because I'm done with my break and want more action.

I had this problem with MGS4. I'd play through a chapter, beat the boss, and watch the short out-tro scene. Then I'd stop playing for a day or two, because all I had to look forward to was a ginormous cutscene. I wanted to get back to the sneaking and shooting part of the game.

Of course, that's an extreme example, but nonetheless, when the player sits down, watches a cutscene, and then they need to take a break that's bad game design. It's not even a game, really. It's a movie.

A nice story is great, but it should flavor the gameplay, not hold the gameplay out of reach and demand you eat some vegetables first.

-SirNiko

[Calabi]

@sirniko

Depends on what the average play time is.  I think even up to an hour of constant shooting, would weary and tire the player,and be too much.  Unless its a full on shooting game like serious sam, instead of what the majority of games are aiming to be(full on movie experience, which is ironic as they only usually allow you to express yourself by shooting).

I think they should look for other ways to break up the action rather than cutscenes though.

[J. R. Hill]

A nice story is great, but it should flavor the gameplay, not hold the gameplay out of reach and demand you eat some vegetables first.

Broccoli > Beholder

So there.

[SirNiko]

A nice story is great, but it should flavor the gameplay, not hold the gameplay out of reach and demand you eat some vegetables first.

Broccoli > Beholder

So there.

If nothing else, those ads are a lot more eye-catching than the usual MMO ads you see these days.

-SirNiko

[AaronG]

@Calabi: I think Uncharted 2 did an admirable job of breaking up action with platforming segments.  The gunfire stops and you know it's time to explore a bit.  It's sort of an odd example given how heavily the game leans on cut-scenes in other ways but I still think it was successful at what I believe you're describing.

[Calabi]

@ Jump.  Its the same with the Tomb Raiders.  The main draw is exploration broken up with some combat and shooting.

I read something a few days ago about the real draw, the real reason people play mario is for the exploration.  I think it may be the same with games like MW2, all the FPS shooters.  People play them to explore to uncover and find out whats next, you get quite a few people saying they play games for the story, they dont mean they want some trite predictable narrative, they just want an adventure.

The shooting in FPS is a block to progress, you get no reward for it, if someone finds they get in anyway frustrated with it then they are not playing the game for the shooting.

Thats a bit off tangent but some of the best parts in games happen in the cutscenes.  I think the cutscenes are the problem of limited player language.  This amounts to shoot or press e for interaction.  So to keep the narrative on par with other media they sort of have to have cutscenes.  To get rid of cutscenes they need to increase the player language or perhaps in the mean time dumb down the stories.

[SirNiko]

I don't think it's that hard to create a story within the context of 'shoot and press e', though. Duke Nukem 3d managed this back when that's all FPS games had: their trick was to construct clever environments that suggested forward progression. You start in the city, make your way to the prison, break out of prison, steal a sub, then infiltrate a downed alien UFO. It's a simple story, but that's all done with the bare minimum of scripting.

The biggest reason cutscenes are so nice is that they can be created independently of the rest of the game. Scripted scenes need to be debugged mercilessly, and updated every time a level gets redesigned. You can set a graphics team to modeling a bunch of cutscenes and there's no need to ever have them meet the game design team. I'm sure that's a huge plus to a company that wants to get a game out in a timely fashion.

-SirNiko

[Calabi]

I think your right Sirniko, its alot to do with lack of time.  They have a strictly prescribed time theres no(or little) room for any innovative design or iterative development(which any half decent game that tries anything, slightly new requires).

I think they are also trying to live up to the expectations of other media(the audience expects it as well).  Like Half Life 2 cutscenes, there the pinnacle, but they dont even work.  There boring, you have players jumping on desks and frustrated with the characters lack of response to you.

I think thats why some of the best pc games have an unseen director.  Like System Shocks, Bioshock, Portal, and some others I cant think of.  They have few if any cutscenes, and they still have an interesting and involving narrative.  Theres no expectation of an argument or disagreeing because, there not in front of you.