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[kiwicode]

is it Rubble Trouble Kyoto?

[st33d]

Moscow this time. It's snowy there.

[Atnas]

I remember playing this last spring. It was really fun! And cute. And I don't see what's wrong with taking a gameplay mechanic (that might also be another game's selling point, sure) and running with it. Fez will probably be a better game because this is a flash game, after all. And Fez has been in development much longer. So I see no problems.

It was a well done game. 

[kiwicode]

I remember playing this last spring. It was really fun!

Cheers, happy you enjoyed it!

Fez will probably be a better game because this is a flash game, after all. And Fez has been in development much longer.

I can agree regarding the longer development but it's a bit unfair to label flash games this way. Yeah, usually most of them are simple and not well executed but you can also find great flash games more entertaining than expensive retail games.

[Atnas]

That's true. No hard feelings intended, flash-tan!

They really can't be compared all that well when you think about it, the goals of each are different. I suspect both games are/will be successful in their own right.

[Bryant]

Wow. There's such a strange double standard in this community. kiwicode makes a well crafted clone of Crush / Paper Mario / Fez (a game that's not even out yet and most of you have never played), and you all tear him apart. But god forbid anyone call you out on the clones you've released to the world.

Why are you all holding kiwicode to a different standard? Go scroll through the DevLogs forum and try and find a game that *doesn't* have a direct comparable. Either hold *everyone* to the same standard, or give kiwicode a pat on the back for putting in the hard work and releasing a game.

[Atnas]

I don't know why but Fez in particular gets everybody really defensive all of a sudden. In fact I remember The Archer dev thread got derailed once because someone brought up Fez for some reason.

[Zaphos]

I think it's for several reasons -- the lead guy on fez (fish) was fairly vocal in complaining about this being 'clone'ish; the fez mechanic is rare and people are more defensive of rarer mechanics (re crush/paper mario: no it's specifically the fez mechanic, don't be silly); fez isn't released yet so it feels a bit harsher to beat your inspiration to market (though not so harsh considering how long fez has been in dev); and fez is well known here so people notice the similarity more easily.

That said I think it's an overreaction and kiwicode does good work.

[Painting]

The Fez thread is huge and I really don't want to go through it, so could somebody... well, explain to me what its deal is?

The sum total I know about the game is this, from watching a few very early trailers: It has typical indie low-res graphics, typical indie chiptune music, a gimmick from Super Paper Mario, and it's taken the creator several years to make.

I don't know the story behind it, so I'm assuming there's something I'm missing. Why is the game such a big deal? It seems completely unremarkable. I honestly don't mean to be obnoxious here, please explain to me why I'm wrong.

[Danmark]

Why is the game such a big deal?

Social connections between Phil Fish and other central indies, which lead to high exposure for Fez.

[kiwicode]

Why is the game such a big deal?

Social connections between Phil Fish and other central indies, which lead to high exposure for Fez.

I would also add that - back in 2008 - FEZ was one of the first remarkable and visually impressive indie games. All this happened in years where the game industry was just AAA retail stuff, casual games, and crappy J2ME games.

Maybe if indie is doing good today it's also because of projects like Fez created by Kokoromi guys back in 2008. It was a great thing!

On the other hand I don't know about FEZ now. It looks like an overheaped project led by just one of the four Kokoromi's members.

Back to Sky Island.

I was stunned when I first saw Fez's screenshots in 2008. After all these years I couldn't resist to create a similar concept and giving it away for free. The development was rather quick compared to FEZ. I like to get things done.

[Claw]

I was lucky enough to play Fez about a month ago at Gamecity, and in my opinion - it lives up to and goes beyond the hype; it is absolutely stunning to play sat on a couch chilled out, just getting immersed in that world. I think the reason these two games are different (and why Fez has taken a long time) is the polish. Fez is all about feeling. It's exploring a strange and beautiful world using the game mechanics and just getting lost in it.

Sky island is a great achievement, something to be proud of making - but a very different game to Fez. They share the perspective shifting mechanic, but use it to different ends and go about it in different ways.

But comparisons and drama aside, this is a pretty cool game - only gripe with it is some of the level design/layout issues which have been raised earlier in the thread.

PS. I'm aware writing feeling in italics makes me sound like a hippie

[Gainsworthy]

I would also add that - back in 2008 - FEZ was one of the first remarkable and visually impressive indie games. All this happened in years where the game industry was just AAA retail stuff, casual games, and crappy J2ME games.

That's pretty inaccurate - the indie scene was already thriving, putting out brilliant works and unusual experiments by the dozen. And it had been for years before that at a slower pace. Most of the current communities were already reasonably populated.

But, yeah, not nearly as viable in a retail sense, to be sure. And, yeah, FEZ was incredibly striking, even before Fish announced the mechanic.

...because of projects like Fez created by Kokoromi guys back in 2008...

...[FEZ] looks like an overheaped project led by just one of the four Kokoromi's members...

Totally agree with the first one - nothing like a striking concept to inspire the masses. Ideas can be more powerful than the final product, sometimes!

Call bullshit on the second one - hold your judgements till it's done, kiddo. What the hell are you going off, anyway? Some short videos?


Yer game's pretty neat, though. I can see where the furore's coming from - it does look pretty similar. That aside, the presentation is pretty slick - feels smooth and professional. Starman's a cutie. And well done on crafting the 2D/3D mechanic (and puzzles!) from scratch. Very cool! Rotating works like a charm, and it's interesting to see this stuff in action.

One criticism though - the jumping feels a little on the heavy side. I think the game would be more fun if he moved slightly faster (maybe with a tiny bit of inertia), jumped slightly higher and fell at a slightly reduced rate. As it stands, Starman must be as dense as his celestial counterparts! 

So, yeah, well done Kiwicode. Shame that the surface similarity to FEZ is detracting from a neat little game. Though, again, I can see why folk are calling "rip-off". I guess all publicity is good publicity, though! Keep up the good work. Also, did you make all the games on Neutronized? That's a nice library there.

[ANtY]

Call bullshit on the second one - hold your judgements till it's done, kiddo. What the hell are you going off, anyway? Some short videos?

What else do we have?

The Fez thread is huge and I really don't want to go through it, so could somebody... well, explain to me what its deal is?

The sum total I know about the game is this, from watching a few very early trailers: It has typical indie low-res graphics, typical indie chiptune music, a gimmick from Super Paper Mario, and it's taken the creator several years to make.

I don't know the story behind it, so I'm assuming there's something I'm missing. Why is the game such a big deal? It seems completely unremarkable. I honestly don't mean to be obnoxious here, please explain to me why I'm wrong.

This is how I see it too and I didn't find any miracle behind it to make everyone crazy about this game, except that Fish has connections.

[unsilentwill]

Lots to say but I'll say this: when Fez was started people knew about Fish's art style. We have been following it for years and can't wait to see it completed. Also it's an actual indie game, ie. one that couldn't have been made by a studio.

Sky island is boring and doesn't try to be unique. Now why is that worth attention?

Try reading the actual Fez thread if you weren't around to watch it and you'll sound way less like horrible little children late to the party. Want to know how he got "connections"? By making a damn good looking game.

[Painting]

Lots to say but I'll say this: when Fez was started people knew about Fish's art style. We have been following it for years and can't wait to see it completed. Also it's an actual indie game, ie. one that couldn't have been made by a studio.

Sky island is boring and doesn't try to be unique. Now why is that worth attention?

Try reading the actual Fez thread if you weren't around to watch it and you'll sound way less like horrible little children late to the party. Want to know how he got "connections"? By making a damn good looking game.

Why is Sky Island worth attention? I dunno - maybe because it's actually playable? Because its creator has clearly put time and effort into it (not that Fez hasn't)? Because it's fun and well-made?

[kiwicode]

Sky island is boring and doesn't try to be unique. Now why is that worth attention?

Why is that worth attention? You should have a look at Sky Island's numbers and think about it then.

Try reading the actual Fez thread if you weren't around to watch it and you'll sound way less like horrible little children late to the party.

I didn't want to mess with Fez because I don't care, I just wanted to make a game. It was the fez guy who contacted me arguing about my game and people on this forum started to talk about Sky Island ( that's how I found this forum ). Again, I don't care, and who's going to stop me anyway?

[unsilentwill]

Just because something is getting attention doesn't mean its worth it. I played your game, twice btw. Maybe there's a reason Fez took so much more time? :O

The second part wasn't directed towards you, I have nothing against you except for the fact that you keep arguing this. Don't be proud of something so uninspired. If you really admire Fish, do what he did and risk the time energy and money to make a game that only you can make.

[Danmark]

the party

That's my point.

Been looking forward to Fez since early 2008, which does make me late to the PBR-infused, thick-frame spectacled party*. Sure. But I've also met Phil Fish personally, witnessing the connections I spoke of first-hand.

Ne'er did I say that Fez is without merit. It's a compelling game, just not necessarily one that warrants more attention than, you know, all those other compelling indie games that have been in production around the time of & after the unveiling of Fez. There's more to its high exposure than merit alone. And that's not something to be bitter about; I be mo' like 'swat it is, B.

* Earlier I lorked threads on another forum about graphics implementation in the game's prototype, presumably by Polytron's current programmer, but I didn't know about the Fez project then

[im9today]

Also it's an actual indie game, ie. one that couldn't have been made by a studio.

lol why not