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[Jesseyay]

I finally decided to upload a game to flashgamelicense, and to my surprise I received a bid within the week.
Its $250 for a game which took ~15 hours to make.
Is this a reasonable offer?
Does anybody have any experience with this website and/or flash games, and how much do they generally go for?

P.S The license type is "primary license"

Expires   55 days
Amount   $250.00
Ads Allowed   CPMstar
License Type   primary
Customized Gameplay   no
Wants Source and .FLA   no
Hosted by sponsor ONLY    for 7 days

[aeiowu]

yo jesse, it's hard to say what a game is worth. Do you have a link to your game up on FGL?

personally, without any knowledge of anything about your game other than the time spent making it, i'd say hold out until it expires at the very least. From the looks of it, you have 55 days...

But yea, give us some more info on your game as well as some more info on you as a dev. Is $250 a lot of money for you? Are you trying/wanting to do this full time?

[Snakey]

It depends on your self worth. I generally charge most clients $40 USD per hour, so 15 hours of work for me would be $600 USD. So unless if you're charging at $16.60 USD per hour for your time, than you may want to rethink things.

If you want this to become your full time job, then perhaps $16.60 USD per hour is a bit low ... but if it is just supplementing your normal job than it may not be so bad since most people don't make anything from their hobbies.

Sit back and think how much your time is worth and your skills.

[bateleur]

Give it some more time, but assuming you get no better offers I'd say accept it.

It's unrealistic to expect Flash games to pay out at consultancy rates. I've made over $150/hour for non-games consultancy, but hell will freeze over before I get that for a Flash game. :D

Even if you do want to do this for a living your profit-per-title will go up with experience. Getting an offer for your first game is already a good start. 

[Jesseyay]

If you have an account at FGL you can play the game at
http://www.flashgamelicense.com/view_game.php?game_id=5877

I'm very happy with an offer of $250 but I didn't want to be undervaluing my game. I'll probably wait for a few weeks and if there are no other bids I'll definitely accept.

[aeiowu]

Fun little game there Jesse, I think it suffers a bit from lack of graphical feedback but nonetheless it's easy to pickup and play, which is important. Personally, if you spent 15 hours on this I'd say another 15 hours might have the potential to make you 1K on the game, or perhaps even more. Though what you add to the game is really the question. Personally I think the game is missing some secondary goals, such as points, modifiers, bonuses and mini-challenges. Like say... if you gave people more points for finishing in just 1 try. That way you could implement high scores. Your game actually reminds me a lot of Pyro http://www.kongregate.com/games/damijin/pyro which was quite financially successful in the flash market. There are some touches there and a few more levels that ramp up the possibilities a bit more.

All that said though, It's really hard to tell, there are a lot of factors that go into getting a sponsorship and most of the time it's just the climate of the sponsor world. Whether the sponsors are biting, the other games offered at the time and so on. It's very possible that working another 15 hours on your game will show you no added value at all. :-/ I'd say, just wait it out if you get a better offer, you get a better offer but otherwise perhaps $250 is fine.

I am interested in hearing your side of things as far as how you see yourself as a dev, but perhaps you're still feeling that out. Snakey's advice is good though and it makes sense to break down how much your time is worth. It's a really crucial figure to have in your head and can help guide a lot of this business.

[Farbs]

Is there any news on this? I'm curious to hear how it went.

[aeiowu]

they *just* posted some sales stats here: http://www.flashgamelicense.com/report_monthly_site_sales.php

very useful stuff.

[Jesseyay]

Well I waited a few weeks, and with no other offers I ended up accepting the $250. Although I accepted the bid it's a slow process to getting the sponsor logo's in the game etc. as email correspondence is slow.

they *just* posted some sales stats here: http://www.flashgamelicense.com/report_monthly_site_sales.php

very useful stuff.

They're some really interesting numbers there. Most games seem to be selling for an average of more than $1000 but I'm quite happy with $250 for the effort I put in.

[puddinlover]

Can't really say but I think if you can work it out so you get ad revenue and you can sell the game license to other people too... well $250 sounds GREAT.  In all honesty I'm thinking about jumping on this flash license bandwagon too if my mobile RPG doesn't sell anything.

[weasello]

I know this issue is kind of closed now that we have some results, but my few cents:

"Undervaluing" only applies if there is some sort of inherent value to something. You wouldn't sell a $10 bill for $5, because there is a direct correlation to value there. Our code doesn't have such a direct correlation, since often time the code itself is the payoff.

I personally have so much fun writing code I'd almost pay someone else to do it. Any money gained is completely gravy! The only considerations I have to make are maintaining the lifestyle - have to get that roof over my head and afford buying some craft beers. And those figures will vary wildly from person to person - ranging from free (living with parents?) to having a deep need to make lots of money.

I'm glad you found a buyer, but I'm even happier that you are happy with the sale.

[knucracker]

I published a pretty big flash game last year and got it sponsored (for a fair amount).  I later used FGL to pick up non exclusive deals.  Adam at FGL was instrumental in my early flash game education.  I've got nothing but praise for the FGL guys.  They have really grown their business over the last year.  They are a top notch outfit.

IMHO the $250 was 'fair' for the game in question.  Trust me I know how hard it is to write a game and how much effort you put in.  So you always want to profit as much as possible.  It is also fair to say that the portal will more than make this $250 'back' from their investment.  This kind of money is inconsequential to any portal of any size.  Go to alexa.com and type in your favorite portals domain and look at the traffic.  Then imagine a (low end) 3% click through on ads at those sites.  Then imagine a (really low) 10cents per ad....

Having said that, a market is a market.... and there are LOTS of flash games available all of the time.  The portals will pay only what they have to (and so they should... they are businesses not charities).  Lower end games (games that don't have much time invested) for the _most_ part are more of a commodity than the really high end productions with lots of polish and production value.  But these low end games are the bread and butter of these portals so they always need a fresh supply.  So you see deals in the hundreds of dollars all of the time....

But don't be discouraged I say... IMHO things are starting to shift.  Microtransactions will change this industry over the next couple of years so there is hope yet that the impoverished flash game developer can write games and make ends meat.

[mirosurabu]

After finding a sponsor using FGL with no luck approaching sponsors, I realized I have definitively underrated FGL.

[Kneecaps]

After finding a sponsor using FGL with no luck approaching sponsors, I realized I have definitively underrated FGL.

Quoted for truth.  I made a game in a week, got no feedback from sponsors I approached directly, posted the game on FGL, and sold it for $1500 after two weeks.  So for cautious individuals out there still questioning it, FGL does work.

[Sam]

Hi!  I have a very similar question to the start of this thread, so I guess it's okay to re-use it?  Seems better than burying the nice useful posts here.

My game's been on FGL for two and a half weeks, and has got two bids.  Hurray!  I find myself hesitating to accept the higher bid - can your combined experiences help tell me if I'm right to?

The game:
Amusingly, rather similar to I MAED A GAEM WITH ZOMBIES IN IT!!!11 but without the irony, longer, and actual maps rather than the open field aesthetic of most Crimsonland clones.

I have a hard time judging its worth.  It took me two months to make, but it could just as well have taken three months if I'd worked (even?) slower.  It's my first 'real' finished game in Flash, so a lot of that development time was learning things.

When it was approved for sponsor viewing by FGL, it was given an editor rating of 8/10.  I have not much idea of what that means - is this using the magazine review scale where 7 is the worst game ever, and nothing gets a 10?  Sadly editor ratings on other games are only shown to sponsors, so I've no idea how I match up.

If you have a FGL.com account, you can play it (if it doesn't give you access let me know and I'll add you as a friend): http://www.flashgamelicense.com/view_game.php?game_id=6954

You can also see a brief video/trailer:



The bids:
$500, then $700.  The $700 bid has quite a short time limit on it, so I'm a little rushed to make a decision.  Both bids are for primary licenses and allow me to add in-game ads.

The worry:
It seems like it has got quite little exposure to sponsors.  Am I totally off in my estimation of how viewed it should be?  FGL.com provides a list of who has viewed the game, which shows that 8 sponsors have tried it in the 17 days it has been up.  Of those 8, 2 have placed a bid, which feels like a decent 'conversion' rate to me.

Should I keep it up for a few more weeks and let the $700 bid expire, hoping that more sponsors will see it and like it?

4 days ago I put that trailer together and submitted it to a FGL person who is maintaining a page of trailers for games in active bidding (an automated email from when the game was approved for sponsorship viewing encouraged the creation of a trailer.)  I've got no word back on if they're doing anything with it.

I'm keen to get this game sold off and done.  But I'm also keen not to be totally ripped off.  Painfully honest advice would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you!

Bonus question!
Both bids specify CPMStar ads.  I've only had experience with MochiAds previously, any opinions on CPMStar?  A brief trawl of the internet gives the impression that CPMStar ads are smaller and easier for the player to skip, and pay out when the player actually follows through on the ad rather than just views it.

[Zaratustra]

I have received no bids in two months. Mostly because I uploaded the game only at 90% finished state and the site reviewed it and gave it a grade of 4.

[Matt Thorson]

@Salt:

I've only sold one Flash game, but I'd say you're getting low-balled.  Maybe try contacting some sponsors personally? 

Your game seems to be of very high quality and well designed.  The only thing brining it down is that it's a concept that has been beaten to death in Flash.  In my (not at all expert) opinion, you should get somewhere around $2000.

[aeiowu]

@Salt
I agree with Matt, you should get more money than that.

@Salt and Zara

I wrote up some details about selling our latest flash game on FGL, Fig. 8 that might be helpful.

Here's the first breakdown: http://mile222.com/2009/08/making-and-selling-fig-8/ and then the bidding breakdown with all the juicy details: http://mile222.com/2009/08/breaking-down-the-fig-8-bidding-timeline/

In general, it's arguably more work to sell your game to sponsors than to make the game itself. Or at least it feels a lot more like work.

[Matt Thorson]

In general, it's arguably more work to sell your game to sponsors than to make the game itself. Or at least it feels a lot more like work.

It totally does seem like a lot more work for me too.

I think maybe it's because when I finish a game I'm so pumped to see the reactions to it that I can't stand anything standing in my way (let alone 3 weeks of tedious back-and-forth emailing and waiting (I didn't use FGL)).

[knucracker]

Both bids specify CPMStar ads.  I've only had experience with MochiAds previously, any opinions on CPMStar?  A brief trawl of the internet gives the impression that CPMStar ads are smaller and easier for the player to skip, and pay out when the player actually follows through on the ad rather than just views it.

CPMStar are fine.  I used mochi to start with but when I sold a primary sponsorship I switched to CPMStar (the sponsers want this since they get a cut).  The payout to you will be about the same.  The eCPM goes up and down but in the end you get paid about the same with either CPMStar or Mochi (in my experience... I'd be interested to know if anyone else has a different experience).   

Technically, back when I did CPMstar integration I had to have my own preloader and show the ad during that.  I had control over the duration of the ad, etc.  This is good and bad.  I only kept the ad up for about 3-5 seconds (if the game was already cached).  This cut my ad click through rate by about two thirds compared to games that held the ad in place for 10 seconds or more.

CPMStar pays monthly via paypal (at least this is how I get paid).  They have a basic portal you can check stats on.  It isn't as fancy as mochi, but it gets the job done.