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[team_q]

One big thing in music is taking someone else's lyrics melodies and song structure up in one hand, taking your style, instruments and feeling in the other, and running head long into a wall, producing some sort of hybrid that you can tell is close to the original, but has a mind of it's own.

Can you conceive of this working in a video-game context? I guess the closest we have is Legend of Princess which has the feel, and themes of Zelda games, slammed against Konjak's art style and boss heavy platformer game-play. Also the 'B' Games competition was close, but I think the theme felt more like digression then a sideways movement, if you know what I mean.

Would you like to see a Cactus style version of Mount and Blade?
Derek Yu does Dwarf Fortress?(What would that be like?)

What is the stumbling point? effort involved, I suppose. I dunno, what you do think?

[shig]

Isn't that how Sonic games came to be, more or less?

[team_q]

Not really, a company iterating on its own franchise isn't the same as an entity putting their own spin on someone else's specific piece of work.

[shig]

What I meant is that Sonic games seem to be Mario games with another "attitude".

[team_q]

Not really, one is a Red over-all wearing plumber the other is a blue hedge hog. They are similar in the sense they are both platformers, but that's about it. I would rather see someone make something identifyable as a Mario game, but clearly not in the Mario style. Similar to the "Let's Draw" threads, but with a whole game.

Also necessary is the overt mention that you are doing just that, there is a whole 'wink an nod' aspect to covers, saying Sonic is a riff off Mario, undervalues Sonic and muddies what covers are.

[the kid in the clock]

seems like there have been a lot of super mario "covers" / "remakes". can't quite recall all of them, but i think of things like

mario forever - http://www.acid-play.com/download/super-mario-3-mario-forever/
super mario 2.5d - http://www.caiman.us/scripts/fw/f1911.html
super mario last gba query - http://www.neoflash.com/forum/index.php?topic=4997.0

although, i know what you're saying - wish someone would take a game and re-style it. zelda done in street fighter style - katamari done in quake style - that sort of thing.

[team_q]

Those are pretty cool, but I think they are more off brand Mario, then an adaptation of the Mario games to a different developer's style.

But, let's not get hung up on Mario.

[shig]

Ok, then what would be a good example of Mario adapted to another developer's style? (Or any other game)

[team_q]

Well, I had mentioned Legend of Princess. Which I think is obviously Zelda done by Konjak. Another good example is the Doom Roguelike, which kinda feels like a punk rock cover of an old rock standard, to stretch the comparison a bit further.

I don't know of any send ups of Mario games, because, I'm not really that interested in Mario covers. I would like to see more Indie/Indie Crossovers.

[Paul Jeffries]

Doesn't this happen pretty much all the time?  Most new commercial games are effectively - in gameplay terms at least - copies of earlier games with a new (or not) spin on them.  You seem to be referring more specifically to a reimagining of particular characters and settings which is also fairly common - most long-running games series go through several development teams who put their own spin on the established property - the official Zelda games themselves are all essentially thematic variations on the exact same story, occasionally switching gameplay mechanics (top-down to platformer, 2D to 3D etc.)

I don't really think this is altogether a good thing in the commercial sector, so I'm not sure why it would be any better for indie games.  Legend of Princess was awesome-cool and everything, but if it were any longer it would seem like a bit of a wasted effort.  And I can't say I've played too many other fangames that were worth the electrons.  There's still so much unexplored territory in game creation I don't think that re-hashing other people's IP (with the obvious hassles that brings) is the optimal route.

[Jolli]

my current gam

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

yeah, fangames -- or even just games that use music and graphics from other games. wouldn't they be exactly what you're talking about? there's a huge number of them out there.

[Jolli]

i think he means new ip but based off an existing ip blablabla

[PlayMeTape]

i think he means new ip but based off an existing ip blablabla

I actually think it's more about taking an existing IP and extending upon it with your own style. Which I think your game does. Maybe not as strikingly as konjaks game since he has a pretty distinct style, but anyway.

It's an interesting subject but game development has so many sides to it so it's pretty hard to define what exactly turns it into a "cover". Look at superbrothers whose art style is very influenced by retro games but with a very unique flavor. Sword & Sworcery has a lot of pretty obvious hints to NES games, would those be enough?

You could argue (as someone said earlier) that most games are some sort of homage since most of their game mechanics are iterations of earlier game mechanics. Eric obviously also values visuals into this evalution as well.

I liked the idea of 'indies' covering eachothers work. But I realize that most people would rather spend time on their own inventions.

[gimymblert]

Mario + sega style = kid chameleon
Yet again mario BUT
Jumping onto enemy? check
breakable blocks? check
Item block? check
Transformative items in item blocks? check
End level flag? check

But come on, most game are just that, variation with style >.>

WHAT? indie/indie?
Underside (i'm waiting this one badly)

[team_q]

I wasn't as explicit as a I could've been. I think fan games are fine, but they are trying their damnedest to be a Mario game(MARIO!!!!) Unlike, say, Mario RPG, which was unmistakeably a Mario game and Unmistakeably a SquareSoft game. Now, again, I'm not too interested in Mario.

I'm worried about chariting Territory where I disparage Fan games, which are fine, but no interest to me, in this thread.
 
Like Here: House of the Rising Sun


oldest version I found on youtube.(I think, don't quote me)


the 'Definitive' version that most other versions are based off of, from here on out, if you only listen to one, this is it.
Frigid Pink late 1960's early 70's Stoner Psycodelic version
Muse and their trademark altrock weirdness

All of these tracks are thematically similar (almost the same, the Woodie Guthre version is closer to the classic American one), and all of them are quite apperently from the band that preforms them. Also interesting is how certan melodies and lines change between versions, but they are noticibly the same song.

So, like that, but Video Games. And yeah, as Paul likes to bring up, Videogames aren't just their mechanics! Ca'mon guys!

    
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

But come on, most game are just that, variation with style >.>

That is the most boring answer!

[Captain_404]

Maybe we don't see many covers because there aren't yet a lot of game designers whose styles are that distinct from each other.

It seems to me that many people are stretching to achieve a single kind of evocation in their game design. They must have polished graphics, polished audio, polished gameplay... but when everyone is striving to make something polished, it all ends up looking the same.

I mean, if you thought about your own games, can you really come up with an element that makes them yours? I'm trying to think of what makes my games feel like they could only be made by me, and I can't think of anything. I haven't a clue! I've made almost no games that no one else could have made.


Subrant: how can a person even claim to have a style of game design if they outsource parts of its creation process to other people?

Say that you've hired someone to do music for you. They send you the track and you listen to it maybe two or three times before emailing them saying that it's pretty good and you think it'll work, or maybe you say it's not quite there yet and could use a bit of tweaking. The fact remains that because someone else is making it, there are facets of that music which you know absolutely nothing about. These are elements that enter into your game that are completely alien to your game design, and you have no idea they're even there.

Now, how can you put up that game and say, "This game represents MY style!" when there are parts of it you haven't even begun to comprehend yet.

I'm not saying that good games cannot be made if you get someone else to do your music. I'm not saying you can't make a unique style if you get someone else to help you with it. I am saying that we're too hands-off, and that we too easily compromise. If you're bad at art, go practice making art. If you're bad at music, go practice making music.

I'll stop here, this is quickly turning from subrant to rant.



So I think we need to put more effort into discovering our own game styles. Once we know ourselves better, we can better know the styles of others. And, of course, once we understand both of these, synthesis between them can be reached.

[gimymblert]

Come on! game style ARE boring.

It's all about a "king of a genre" and wanabee that try to remake him in their own style, except their styles is also and mostly a rip off.

Darksider = zelda + god of war + comics
Prototype = Spiderman + hulk + assassin's creed
Just cause = GTA + spiderman
Dead space = RE4 + Doom

Video game is just theme and gameplay swap with no distinct feel. They may have some iconic element but not more.

Rare gem like no more heroes or killer7 are so out of fashion than nobodies ever try to claim their style or anything from them.

How many companies have a distinct style? Sega did once
Nintendo still has (recent mix: fighting game + nintendo style = smash bros) and it makes radical departure of old style.
Fumito Ueda also come to mind.

Where are the katamary damacy rip off (style or gameplay)?

At least indie is where styles are met. Their is a lot of metroidvania with distinct style but still they feel like playing metroid (kinda). etc...

[Chris Whitman]

I think you can get style from bands because they're made up of only a few people. Similarly, very small indie studios or individual developers often have their own style (you'd know a Cactus game anywhere).

Once a studio gets large enough, it isn't style; it's brand identity.

[Jolli]

Once a studio gets large enough, it isn't style; it's brand identity.

i can easily see and feel the differences between a infinity ward call of duty and a treyarch developed call of duty, thnx