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[increpare]

Lots of interesting stuff here lately...

I've been trying to break out of the habit of making horribly repetitive, looped music that's built up like an onion, layer by layer, but I feel I'm having mixed successes at best. Could somebody tell me what they think of this?

http://www.box.net/shared/65cyu5brug

Yeah, I can see that you might have trouble with the repetition.  Here're some things you might consider trying out

1: have the loop of the repeating bassy synth pattern a bit varied (this is hard to do while keeping in style though (I just spent twenty minutes trying to come up with longer loops that didn't break the styl, and failed miserably).
2: don't repeate the flute part verbatum the second time it comes it (it was pretty weak the first time).  Maybe take that as an opportunity to introduce some other instruments in answer instead (warm strings, say, playing a chord that bloom very slowly?  Maybe not too rich though, if you want to keep the lightness of texture)
3: vary the first melodic line.  It can still be varied a lot, I think, while not breaking character. One thing to try would be to mute that line, and to instead try and improvise a similarly-styled line on guitar, say, using the same notes (and record it). 
4: also things get a little muddy when the second lead synth comes in; you could possibly remove the first synth for some of this, (and maybe the flute also).  This might work really well in terms of keeping things light.  The section starting at 1.43 is pretty fine; I think that keeping the section before this sparser might make it more effective still.
5: There's one other possibility for varying things: have a section near the end that has just the two lead synths together, no bass/drums. 

The more I think about it, the less need I see for there to be a full ensemble playing at any point in this piece.  And, as a general rule of thumb: you can get a lot of mileage in a piece like this from permuting the instrument combinations.  You don't really do that.  I'd say: have a look at all the various combinations of two tracks, and of one tracks, and see if you can think of a way of laying them out without necessarily repeating any combination twice.  (I guess you should toss in the contrasting 1.43 section somewhere as well).

(Oh, I never commented on your endless melody challenge entry: from what I recall it was great, though the main line was closer to an instrumental figuration than a melody).

[muku]

Wow, thanks for the detailed critique. I'm having trouble matching some of what you say up to the specific parts in the song, so, eh... Let's just say it roughly has an ABA structure, first part is until 1:33, second part until 2:39, third part (similar to first) until the end. A/C is in 4/4, B is in 7/8.

ad 1: I know, I should vary it a bit, but as you say it's difficult to do without breaking continuity. I need to practice on this I guess.
ad 2: I don't know what you mean by the flute part... the one that comes in at 0:18? Right now I think repeating the lead synth part which fades in and starts proper around 0:50 was a mistake.
ad 3: Again, which melodic line do you mean? I'm having trouble matching it up with your descriptions. As for improvising on guitar, yes, I could do that... problem is, I'd need to transcribe it from the recording into MIDI so that it fits sound-wise, and that's quite annoying to do. I probably should put in the effort, yes...
ad 4: When you say "the section starting at 1.43", do you mean the middle section? Because for me that starts earlier already. In any case part B is the one I'm somewhat happy with right now.
ad 5: Actually I did that for a short bit towards the end of part B?

You're probably right about the permutations of switching stuff off/on; I somehow feel that it's a cheap thing to do, but I guess it would help still. As for mixing the middle section in with the others, that would be quite hard as it's in a different time (7/8).

I can't help but feel that my entire approach is flawed; I always build tracks up vertically, starting with a bassline or chords or somesuch, looping them and then adding e.g. drums or a lead part on top of that. That seems to make everything disjointed and repetitive and boring. I guess I should compose more horizontally, adding stuff bit by bit into multiple tracks as I go, but the workload seems so overwhelming... How do other people handle this?

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to go into such detail, it's appreciated.

[increpare]

ad 2: I don't know what you mean by the flute part... the one that comes in at 0:18? Right now.

Yeah; that instrument that has the descending pattern.

ad 3: Again, which melodic line do you mean?

the one that starts at 0:08.

problem is, I'd need to transcribe it from the recording into MIDI so that it fits sound-wise, and that's quite annoying to do.

Not too annoying though, if you restrict yourself to using the four or five notes that you use in the melody in the piece.  It's almost not as much about having something to transcribe as in doing a detailed investigation.  If you find some patterns that you like, you can then maybe include them.  I wouldn't worry about it too much, though, if it's too much work.

ad 4: When you say "the section starting at 1.43", do you mean the middle section? Because for me that starts earlier already. In any case part B is the one I'm somewhat happy with right now.

Yeah, I was referring to that section.

ad 5: Actually I did that for a short bit towards the end of part B?

Oh, indeed you did.

I somehow feel that it's a cheap thing to do,

You shouldn't, though.  Exploring timbrel possibilities is always something worth considering, and what this suggestion amounts to.  If you find yourself doing it without thinking in every song you write, then maybe your issues might be better founded, but if it seems like a good direction to take a piece in, then I wouldn't really worry.

As for mixing the middle section in with the others, that would be quite hard as it's in a different time (7/8).

I didn't suggest that.  (If I did I didn't mean to).

I can't help but feel that my entire approach is flawed; I always build tracks up vertically, starting with a bassline or chords or somesuch, looping them and then adding e.g. drums or a lead part on top of that. That seems to make everything disjointed and repetitive and boring. I guess I should compose more horizontally, adding stuff bit by bit into multiple tracks as I go, but the workload seems so overwhelming... How do other people handle this?

By moving very slowly >_<  One other problem with this is that you can end up loosing any sense of overall structure when you're writing it note by note as opposed to structuring it phrase by phrase or bar by bar.  But: you know, just give it a go, and see what happens.

Some people write lots of sketches of various possible snippits, and then try to fit them all together. (Stravinsky most famously used to do this).  There's a lot to be said for this method as well. 

[Craig Stern]

I designed the cover myself. If you like it, you can listen to more of my "Tomfoolio" stuff here for free:

http://www.audiostreet.net/artist.aspx?artistid=13

[DangerMomentum]

Working on a Swing version of Haunted Chase from DKC2 at the moment, hopefully as an OCR submission eventually. This is the most recent thing I've done, maybe I'll post more stuff later.

[mirosurabu]

http://www.acidplanet.com/components/embedfile.asp?asset=1192110&T=4203

Short version of my dreamy and weird electronic tune I have produced last year. It's not well mixed but it's listenable.

I think I am going to use it for my forthcoming project (which would be first time I use my own music in my projects).

[mirosurabu]

I can't help but feel that my entire approach is flawed; I always build tracks up vertically, starting with a bassline or chords or somesuch, looping them and then adding e.g. drums or a lead part on top of that. That seems to make everything disjointed and repetitive and boring. I guess I should compose more horizontally, adding stuff bit by bit into multiple tracks as I go, but the workload seems so overwhelming... How do other people handle this?

Vertical progression is not a flawed approach. No, not at all. Unless, of course, you are trying to make song which expands horizontally. If you want things to expand horizontally then you will need to learn how to compose/improvise longer melodies or have many small melody snippets (tiles) you can permute and combine into something horizontally wide. This is best achieved by learning how to play an instrument, but can also be learned by trial and error, though it's quite harder approach.

Vertical progression is most commonly used in electronic music and requires expensive layering and texturing in order to create a decent track, and not something disjointed and boring. I use it by myself most of the time. Though I tend to mix long improvised melodies on top of it.

[battlerager]

Working on a Swing version of Haunted Chase from DKC2 at the moment, hopefully as an OCR submission eventually. This is the most recent thing I've done, maybe I'll post more stuff later.

That sounds so damn fresh.

Loving the bass and everything.

I hope you finish this! 

[muku]

I can't help but feel that my entire approach is flawed; I always build tracks up vertically, starting with a bassline or chords or somesuch, looping them and then adding e.g. drums or a lead part on top of that. That seems to make everything disjointed and repetitive and boring. I guess I should compose more horizontally, adding stuff bit by bit into multiple tracks as I go, but the workload seems so overwhelming... How do other people handle this?

Vertical progression is not a flawed approach. No, not at all. Unless, of course, you are trying to make song which expands horizontally. If you want things to expand horizontally then you will need to learn how to compose/improvise longer melodies or have many small melody snippets (tiles) you can permute and combine into something horizontally wide. This is best achieved by learning how to play an instrument, but can also be learned by trial and error, though it's quite harder approach.

Vertical progression is most commonly used in electronic music and requires expensive layering and texturing in order to create a decent track, and not something disjointed and boring. I use it by myself most of the time. Though I tend to mix long improvised melodies on top of it.

Well, I do play two instruments (trumpet and guitar), so I do have a certain idea of how melodies progress (not a very good grasp though, admittedly). My problem lies more in getting the track to progress as a whole, not only a single instrumental part; if only one part progresses and the others keep repeating what they were playing before, this can never be quite as compelling as an orchestrated change throughout all parts.

Another, more practical problem for me is the lack of a good interface between my ideas and the computer.  Unless you play piano/keyboard and use a MIDI keyboard, you're basically boned. There are MIDI guitars, but they're quite expensive, and I don't even know how well they work. There's just no easy way for me to get an improvised line into a sequencer; transcribing it note by note just never feels as natural, besides being horribly tedious. It's like my hands are tied as soon as I sit down at the computer, as opposed to picking up my guitar.

"Flawed" may have been inaccurate insofar as it is only accurate with respect to what I'm trying to achieve. I'm not very interested in traditional electronic dance music which is quite simply structured and where I'm sure you can achieve good results with this vertical layering technique. Whenever electronic music really appeals to me, I often find, as is the case with Disasterpeace, that it's the kind that is structured more like a progressive rock piece with frequent breaks, complicated rhythms and intricate harmonies. I think it's impossible to achieve this kind of thing by building up a track layer by layer.

[Craig Stern]

http://www.acidplanet.com/components/embedfile.asp?asset=1192110&T=4203

Short version of my dreamy and weird electronic tune I have produced last year. It's not well mixed but it's listenable.

I think I am going to use it for my forthcoming project (which would be first time I use my own music in my projects).

Hm. This track has promise. There are some really pleasant moments in it, particularly once it hits the 30-second mark and begins what I assume to be its central chord progression. The beginning seems kind of choppy and disjointed to me, though. This could be great with some work!

[battlerager]

This is the third year I wrote a "New Year's Tune". (= I write a song during the 1st of January. I am not allowed to use anything I wrote/prepared earlier, and the song needs to be finished before its the 2nd of January.)

This is 2009's one:

http://willhostforfood.com/files3/7675501/AnotherYear2009_TheClockStrikesAgain.mid

Enjoy!

[Nate Kling]

Battlerager, I love your stuff and this song is no exception so great.  Your drum fills are always really exciting.

[agj]

Battlerager, noo, why midi. Still, cool tune!

Another, more practical problem for me is the lack of a good interface between my ideas and the computer.  Unless you play piano/keyboard and use a MIDI keyboard, you're basically boned. There are MIDI guitars, but they're quite expensive, and I don't even know how well they work. There's just no easy way for me to get an improvised line into a sequencer; transcribing it note by note just never feels as natural, besides being horribly tedious. It's like my hands are tied as soon as I sit down at the computer, as opposed to picking up my guitar.

Soo, then, why don't you just... record? Why must you sequence?

[muku]

Soo, then, why don't you just... record? Why must you sequence?

Hm. I think it's not that easy to make synthesizers and recorded lines agree with each other, sound-wise, if you know what I mean... it easily sounds off somehow, especially if the recorded instrument is unprocessed. A related problem is that it's not trivial to get agreeable sound quality when recording, whereas that's no problem when sequencing.

You raise a good point though; I might experiment with processed guitar lines in the future.

[Trevor Dunbar]

Here- chew on this- Tell me what you think- I want to make a space shooter game album- ____

I don't think I'm done with it yet, so consider this a sampler

http://trevordunbar.com/Music/EmptyShiphull.mp3

[Kekskiller]

Exocore
(just scroll down, it's hosted by a music portal)

It's a smorgasbord of noise, techno/techtrance and dark ambient with lofi elements - sometimes mixed together. At the moment I'm trying to make a themed album with consistent style and quality - probably about S.T.A.L.K.E.R.S.!

[Lukas]

I guess this is an opportunity to link to my newly opened "Digital CD-Digicase" :D

It's a whole Album of music I did over the course of this summer. (well Summer '08)

Everything is explained and illustrated on the Site.

You can listen to some preview-tracks directly on the site and also download the whole albums as a 53mb-mp3-zip-folder.

www.acd-functions.de

Have Fun.

BaronCid 

[agj]

Hm. I think it's not that easy to make synthesizers and recorded lines agree with each other, sound-wise, if you know what I mean... it easily sounds off somehow, especially if the recorded instrument is unprocessed. A related problem is that it's not trivial to get agreeable sound quality when recording, whereas that's no problem when sequencing.

You raise a good point though; I might experiment with processed guitar lines in the future.

Yeah, really, no one cares about all that stuff, dissonance and low fidelity are all the rage.

[Hayden Scott-Baron]

Streaming, and zipped.

Zipped link is kaputt! D:

[jute]

Exocore
(just scroll down, it's hosted by a music portal)

It's a smorgasbord of noise, techno/techtrance and dark ambient with lofi elements - sometimes mixed together. At the moment I'm trying to make a themed album with consistent style and quality - probably about S.T.A.L.K.E.R.S.!

I like this stuff!  Have you visited http://chondriticsound.com/forum/ ?  It's the biggest/busiest noise forum around, and you could post a link to this page in the "MP3" section and get some feedback.