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[rekcah]

@rekchah: Same here, there are a few songs of mine that took me multiple attempts (I kept rewriting the verses or the chorus because they didn't feel right).  Though I must say that my favorite songs (and I think my best ones) are the songs that came out really quickly and naturally.  Ah, if you're on your 4th game then you're probably totally used to the difference by now!  This is only my first game, so I'm still getting used to it, hehe... when I first started out I kept having to tell myself "one step at a time" because I couldn't believe how long it would take me to do one section, and then to imagine that there were going to be hundreds more after that >_< ... you're certainly right about the patience thing.  Do you usually do all the production yourself when it comes to music?       

Yeah I pretty much do everything myself. Anything specific you wanted to know about? I really enjoy recording and mixing live instruments... but maybe thats because I spent too much money on the recording equipment not to enjoy it LMAO.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i haven't played ur quan masters so i can't really answer that, but it sounds about right, yeah. friending the creatures in done in different ways for different creatures, and part of the game is to figure out how it's done (describing how to do it for each would ruin the exploration feel). but as an example, the first one you can friend is friended by moving around it as it looks at you, moving in a circle around it without stopping; if you do that enough, it becomes friended.

[supershigi]

Okay guys, I have a dilemma... Melolune's music is taking up way too much space >_<  At first I thought that the majority of the game's music would be in MIDI (save for a few key scenes), but I've been using a lot more oggs than previously expected.  I'm trying to decide if I should make MIDI versions of all these extra tracks (ie - tracks not being used in special scenes) and allow people to download a "higher quality music" patch later on, or if I should just keep everything in there despite it bloating the file size a bit.  What do you think?   

@rekcah: That's cool, I usually do all my own production as well.  I forgot if I asked you this before or not, but what kind of software do you use for your music? 

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

well, what level of ogg compression are you using? if you use ogg compression level 0 or 1, you get music that's still much better than MIDI (even if it sounds compressed to trained ears on specialized headphones), and still fairly small.

i'd heavily recommend against using MIDI at all, since it sounds so dated. i don't mind a game that's 600mb to download; better that than MIDI music. aquaria was 600mb (full version), if i remember right. that's absolutely fine. maybe people with modems won't download it, but file size matters very little anymore, since broadband connections are so common now.

[Zaphos]

I don't mind a large download either ... hard drives are large these days.

How much space is 'way too much space', anyway?

[supershigi]

@Paul: That's actually kind of a relief to hear... for some reason I hadn't even noticed how large a file Aquaria was until you pointed it out.  Right now my oggs are encoded at 192, and the quality is set to 5... but I'm sure it'd be okay to turn it down a bit.  What do you think about portals though?  I guess I've seen some search & find games that hovered around 300mb, but the majority I've come across were 50 and under.   

@Zaphos: If I keep all my music in ogg then the size might be somewhere between 200-300mb I think... without it, probably closer to 120mb.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i haven't played many games from portals, unless steam counts as a portal (and on steam there are all kinds of sizes of games, even some 10gb ones). you'd probably be better off asking the people on indiegamer.com that question (since they've more familiarity with the casual portals). or asking amanda fitch, who has experience in selling rpgs on casual portals. or hanako/hpapillon (who sometimes posts on these forums but not very often). i wouldn't expect there to be any problem with games in the 200mb-300mb range, though. (although one issue is that some portals like reflexive actually charge you for bandwidth, and take that fee out of your profits -- that's after the huge percent they take, too).

personally i think it's not even humanly possible to tell the difference between an ogg compressed at 3 and an ogg compressed at 5; i can sort of tell the difference between 0, 1, 2, and 3, but everything 3 and above sounds perfect to me. so you may consider using 3 rather than 5; you may cut down a lot of file size that way.

you also may consider a separate full version and demo version. the demo version could use higher compression (0 or 1) and the full version higher (3 or 4 or 5). that's what i did in immortal defense; if i recall, the demo used compression level 1 and the full version used compression level 4; demo was 18mb, full version was 40mb. a small difference in compression makes a lot of difference in file size.

as an aside, i'd strongly recommend not using portals at first, and trying to sell your game on your own first. at least for a few months. this is because portals usually take a huge percent (65%-80% is typical). also, when i put my game on reflexive, a torrent of it immediately appeared; it had been on sale for about a year previous to that, with no torrents. immortal defense is on several portals (d2d, gamersgate, reflexive, etc.), but less than 5% of sales come from those portals, the majority come from my site and my own marketing efforts. i think sometimes putting a game on a portal too soon can mean less overall sales (this will probably not be the advice you get on indiegamer.com, note).

[rekcah]

Hey!

You can definitely get away with lowering your bit rate down to 128kpbs! I usually cant hear the compression at 128kbps unless there are vocals or a mix of live instruments. I've listened to all of the tracks in the demo and I'm sure 128kbps should work fine. If thats too low for you Id bump it up to 160kbps.

Like Paul said, I dont think its humanly possible to hear the compression if its compressed at 160kbps and above. For some reason it makes me feels good to export my music at 320kbps though LMAO.

What software I use? I use Adobe Audition to record live instruments and vocals. I use Madtracker as a tracker/sequencer/sampler. I have a TON of vsts that I use for various sounds,instruments, or effects.

[tim_the_tam]

hey just finished the demo and i got to say rpgs arnt really my thing but this was quite enjoyable. your got some beautiful art and music as well as a great story with a nice touch of humor and a pretty decent battle mechanic.

i do have some critiques.. in the beginning the story felt a bit impersonal. the set up with the parents death was way too short and to be honest i didnt really care about them. it needs more than a "i love you" scene and a funeral. how about you live through a day in the life of the twins much like the intro section of the leebee's village. also the second person text when you are introduced to being areo "best friend" felt awkward. but other than that the story unfolded really well and the flash back were nicely.

other than that it just need to be polished more. some things that remember are the character portraits and battle animations as they were not on par graphically. also the npcs dont sit on the seats in the last city (i forget its name) and when your on walking on the edge of the bridge it looks as though you waking on top of the walls.

good luck! i look to playing the full game.
p.s the leebees are so cute ^^

[terloon]

When I started the demo it went straight to full screen. I've recently tried other RPG Maker games in which they ask you whether you want full screen or have an option for it. Is there a way to play this not in full screen?

[supershigi]

@Paul: Wow, thank-you for the time to write all that ^_^  It's very helpful information.  I had no idea that so few of an indie's sales would come from the major portals.  I guess if your game isn't a typical "search & find" it's tough to get noticed (well that and the fact that they put out so many games everyday).  I actually talked to Amanda a few months back, she's really nice.  I guess her portal takes 40% if you affiliate with them, which seems pretty decent since a lot of rpg fans frequent her site.  Based on what you said, perhaps I should hold off going to Bigfish or Reflexive until after selling it on my own and/or through Amaranthia first.  Besides that though, how was your overall experience in dealing with the large portals?  Do you think it's still worth it to go through them eventually?

@reckah: Ah cool, thank-you... saving all the in-game oggs at 128kbps should help a lot with space.  Perhaps I can just keep the vocal tracks compressed at a higher rate.  Wow, 320!  I don't think I've ever seen an ogg or mp3 at that compression level   That's cool though, keep as much quality as possible when you can get away with it! 

@tim_the_tam: Hey, you're the guy who recommended Typing of the Dead!  You have good taste   And thank-you for checking out my demo, I'm really glad that you thought the story unfolded well (it's so hard for me to gauge that sort of thing since I've played through it so many times now) ^_^  Ah, you're totally right about the seats and walkways in Debonet, I will go back and fix that.  As for the introduction, I don't mind if the player doesn't feel for Achaius' parents... my aim wasn't really to get the players attached to them, but rather to give a really short glimpse into Achaius' past so they'd know he was involved in another world prior to coming to Leeble Village.  Thank-you for the kind words and feedback! 

@terloon: Hi terloon, to answer your question, you can press Alt-Tab to switch to windowed mode if you'd like.  Thank-you for pointing that out, I'll make sure to include that information in the final version!  Thank-you for checking out the demo!

[Jonathan]

Yeah, I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference between 192kbps and 128kbps, and you could save a good amount of space that way.  You might want to keep the main theme at the highest quality though since the vocals are right at the forefront.  On a side note, that's a beautiful song.

[supershigi]

Thanks Jonathan, I'm glad you liked it!  I started converting some of the BGM wav files to 128kbps oggs and you guys are right, they sound fine. 

I haven't posted any updates in a while, so I thought I'd share some music.  I was actually working on these tracks for another project, but we ended up switching to all midis so I got to keep these for my own use... it was kind of fortuitous actually, because they ended up fitting the last area of the game really well.  Anyways, here they are: 

Caleigh

Little Fish

Oh, and if any of you are going to GDC, hope to see you there!  These Leebles have curiously made their way onto my business cards courtesy of my friend PF...

[rekcah]

Thanks Jonathan, I'm glad you liked it!  I started converting some of the BGM wav files to 128kbps oggs and you guys are right, they sound fine. 

I haven't posted any updates in a while, so I thought I'd share some music.  I was actually working on these tracks for another project, but we ended up switching to all midis so I got to keep these for my own use... it was kind of fortuitous actually, because they ended up fitting the last area of the game really well.  Anyways, here they are: 

Caleigh

Little Fish

Oh, and if any of you are going to GDC, hope to see you there!  These Leebles have curiously made their way onto my business cards courtesy of my friend PF...

Love the music!....and OMG... Little Fish..... I hear so much more in that track ahaha.  You should expand on it! Or let me do a remix <_< LOL..

Seriously though.. good stuff!

[CiroContinisio]

Just looking at the screenshots, I feel that the perspective is kinda wrong: often walking paths and background don't blend together in terms of perspective, like in the first screen. The log bridge is seen too much from above, while the houses are seen too much from the side.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Just looking at the screenshots, I feel that the perspective is kinda wrong: often walking paths and background don't blend together in terms of perspective, like in the first screen. The log bridge is seen too much from above, while the houses are seen too much from the side.

i actually think it's a bad idea to use a completely 100% rigorous perspective. plenty of commercial top-down games mix perspective (the 2d zelda series, for instance: look at screenshots from those sometime) -- it's more interesting to draw something from the most interesting angle than to draw everything from the exact same angle, it leads to more interesting screens. so i think this is a bad thing to aim for, and not desirable.

[Renton]

I'm gonna have to agree with Ciro here. I'm not against mixing perspectives at times if it looks good but in this instance it just looks wonky.

[CiroContinisio]

i actually think it's a bad idea to use a completely 100% rigorous perspective. plenty of commercial top-down games mix perspective (the 2d zelda series, for instance: look at screenshots from those sometime)

Are you talking about a Zelda game, or the Zelda series in its whole? Because for me it's ok to switch perspective in the same game, but not in one scene
In my knowledge, the Zelda games never used mixed perspective: all of the assets in a single game share the same viewpoint.

What you describe is something more like cubism...

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

all of the 2d zelda games mix perspective. for more info on this, see the comments to this entry:

http://rinku.livejournal.com/1730023.html

it has picture illustrations, etc.

[CiroContinisio]

I see. Your game has very good graphics, I like them, but I can't help but think the same here: the mix of perspectives bothers me.
For the Zelda games, you're right: the first Zelda did a lot of this, but of course as one of your reader pointed out it's because of the low resolution. They could've done better, but at the time it was acceptable. Now it's not.

I know that you're making it a style, but I think people will not understand this, or maybe don't appreciate the choice.
Looking at your game, I think that it's more a matter of need than of choice. Your characters are going to rotate, so it's easier to pretend that they are top-down. This is understandable, but then they will look a bit strange.

This is something that happened to me yesterday night... I was trying to 3Dfy my game graphics for a banner, but they only looked strange. In my game, I'd like to have a 3dfied perspective like this (click):



But the fact is that I should have to create animations for every angle, and this is not feasible. Now, it looks like this:



And I'm going to keep it like this because it's more readable (I already have problems in this respect).

Anyway, Saturated Dreamers looks very good so I'm going to forgive the perspective!