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[clockwrk_routine]

you have a great smile don't you, pearly whites, dimples

[pgil]

If you claim I have no experience please read forward.I have fully graduated Graphic Design, also I can play a number of instruments well. I can also animate full cartoons on paper and in flash. I can edit digital video no problem. Just a few weeks ago I got my hands on AUTO DESK Maya and the Epics Unreal engine (still learning).Finally I can write. I have a novel in the midst of being published.

I think it would help if you posted examples of your work.  On your facebook page you have some nice drawings, but I can't tell if they're yours, or if they were posted by other people.  You said you've done animation.  Post something you've done on Youtube. People will be more likely to work with you if they have a sense of what you can contribute. You created a lot of artwork at school, right? Show it off!

[Richard Kain]

I have fully graduated Graphic Design, also I can play a number of instruments well. I can also animate full cartoons on paper and in flash. I can edit digital video no problem. Just a few weeks ago I got my hands on AUTO DESK Maya and the Epics Unreal engine (still learning).Finally I can write. I have a novel in the midst of being published.

The situation you are describing is pretty much exactly where I was almost ten years ago, when I had just graduated from college. The primary difference is that I managed to teach myself 3D modeling while in college, so I already had that going for me.

While being multi-talented in those areas is useful, very little of it pertains directly to practical game development. Your best bet is to focus on developing a smaller project that can effectively utilize the skills you already have.

The kind of help you are looking for is the kind of help that usually demands considerable salaries. Unless you have some completed projects under your belt to show off, there aren't many developers who will take you seriously. What you need to get a team like that together is a very well produced design document, and a signed financier. If you can actually convince someone to give you a few million dollars to start a game company, you can then hire the kind of talent you're looking for.

Most independent developers are already working on their own projects and ideas, and aren't interested in pursuing someone else's vision without some manner of incentive.

[RyanHuggins]

This is pretty funny.

[ASnogarD]

You have 2 options...

Learn to code, at least enough to show off a prototype of your 'idea'.

or , splash the cash and hire a coder.

At this stage you are asking a coder to spend time and effort on ... someone elses ideas.

I have said it before , and I'll probably say it again ... its far easier to learn to code than it is to precisely and conscisely communicate your ideas to someone else.

... besides, even if you do get someone to code for you it is still a good idea to learn to code so as to understand what coding is like.

[Muz]

I have said it before , and I'll probably say it again ... its far easier to learn to code than it is to precisely and conscisely communicate your ideas to someone else.

Strongly disagree here. It takes me at least a whole month to pick up a programming language from scratch, to the point where I'm not referencing documentation every other line. You'd need a semester and discipline just to pick up the raw basics (as in 3 months of full time coding, with practicing and all).

And assuming you're self-taught, without some kind of mentor to correct you, you'll be making a lot of noob mistakes like never using things like spending half a week debugging because you forgot a semicolon, not using functions, inheritance, or putting your 5000 lines of code in only one file.

Most companies I know actually have a 6 month grace period to give a fresh graduate (i.e. someone who has been literally learning code full time for 4-5 years) to let a new coder realize that he sucks and can't do anything useful in the real world, and let him try to fix that.

There's a reason why programmers are so expensive; it's because it takes a long time to create one, which someone who's been programming since school doesn't feel.

OTOH, it's really easy to communicate, at worst in pseudocode. I'm getting bossed around by someone who doesn't code, but he takes time into learning how to write good pseudocode. And it saves me a lot of time figuring out how to do it. It can work just fine. And then, you'll always have someone with 20 years programming experience who still can't communicate what he wants properly, and ends up coding everything by himself.

Technical communication is a skill that takes time to develop. And a good way of developing is well.. making random projects in your free time as a group.


But I do agree with all the people saying that there's no incentive for this. A programmer has tons of good (and bad) projects to pick from, sometimes his own. A formless project isn't going to be very appealing.

[VideoGameProject]

I have said it before , and I'll probably say it again ... its far easier to learn to code than it is to precisely and conscisely communicate your ideas to someone else.

Strongly disagree here. It takes me at least a whole month to pick up a programming language from scratch, to the point where I'm not referencing documentation every other line. You'd need a semester and discipline just to pick up the raw basics (as in 3 months of full time coding, with practicing and all).

And assuming you're self-taught, without some kind of mentor to correct you, you'll be making a lot of noob mistakes like never using things like spending half a week debugging because you forgot a semicolon, not using functions, inheritance, or putting your 5000 lines of code in only one file.

Most companies I know actually have a 6 month grace period to give a fresh graduate (i.e. someone who has been literally learning code full time for 4-5 years) to let a new coder realize that he sucks and can't do anything useful in the real world, and let him try to fix that.

There's a reason why programmers are so expensive; it's because it takes a long time to create one, which someone who's been programming since school doesn't feel.

OTOH, it's really easy to communicate, at worst in pseudocode. I'm getting bossed around by someone who doesn't code, but he takes time into learning how to write good pseudocode. And it saves me a lot of time figuring out how to do it. It can work just fine. And then, you'll always have someone with 20 years programming experience who still can't communicate what he wants properly, and ends up coding everything by himself.

Technical communication is a skill that takes time to develop. And a good way of developing is well.. making random projects in your free time as a group.


But I do agree with all the people saying that there's no incentive for this. A programmer has tons of good (and bad) projects to pick from, sometimes his own. A formless project isn't going to be very appealing.

Hey Guys!

I agree, with this statement. It's bananas learning code. Especially with time and passion needed to do such a thing. We all have our skill set. We all have our own passions. Some love coding while others find it boring. Some people love to draw, while someone would rather play guitar ect...

I have the passion to make a game, my skills that I bring to the table are directing,writing and finally art. That said, I'm sure there are programmers/coders out there that can do there job perfect but lack the ideas. Or just need some direction or a challenge. When I combine directing/writing to the table along with programmers/coders, great games can happen.

There is a reason there are directors, writers, programmers, coders and musicians. Each have there job. Each have a different pay grade. Some people have the ability to have all skills to making games. That includes the art direction, the writing, the programming/coding,Sound ect.. They are super human hahaha! And great if you guys know how to do all that!. I however don't. All I'm trying to do is get some people together that has spare time, that wants to work on a side project. With there individual skill set, to make a game.

It seems like I'm asking allot but really it's all for a learning experience and fun. Will it make money? Who knows. I honestly don't think it will at first. If one day it does, great!. This project is for the people that are board, that want to work on something/anything, and have a final product. Something for art portfolio's for the kids who wants to get into Animation/Graphic Design/Computer Science or music program. Also to make a few friends in the mix of it all.

Thanks for responding guys! I like the feedback, I really do. I am ambitious about this. I know programmers want the cash, hell I would too if I was doing the programming and coding. It's allot of work! Id say that about putting anything more then 40 hours in period. What I'm asking is for the people that just want something to do because they want to. I know what your saying "Good luck finding that sucker!" but really. It is possible!

Visit the facebook page if your curious. The community is small but growing slowly!. http://www.facebook.com/VideoGamesProject

[FemtoKitten]

You don't have to pay them in money, but it is a powerful motivator. Payment can be many things, E.G I have worked on at least one XBLIG project in the past in exchange for art assets for my own projects.

Some people just work for others just to get the experience, which is great for beginners and it provides an in with the industry if that work is with an experienced group.

Some just collaborate to see their ideas come to life, but in those cases it is EVERYONE'S project, not just one dictator director type.

However if you want someone to work full-time or any significant amount of time a day/week... then you better hope that they either have a livable main income or you provide one.

[Houndninja]

There's nothing wrong with trying to put together a team for a game. However, your main problems, and why everyone is being so condescending, are these:

1. Everyone has ideas. Your ideas are no more special and you offer nothing further than them.
2. "skilled" programmers and animators, as you've requested, are not going to want to do something like this. They already have done simple projects like this and have gained the skills to make larger, more organized things that actually promise money. Try looking for new and in-training people. That is much more realistic.
3. Unless you somehow managed to get the world's best programmer, artist, and musician who all agreed to work for free under a guy who did nothing more than supervise, don't expect the game to be good. At all. You should start with a learning experience, and work your way up. And you should really try to learn programming/art/music. Because right now you are near worthless to a team.
That's how everyone else did it. Don't expect to be better.

That's what everyone is telling you, albeit in less words. I dig your optimism, now you just need to put that to actual use, like learning to program. It's fun~

Hey Guys

If you claim I have no experience please read forward.I have fully graduated Graphic Design, also I can play a number of instruments well. I can also animate full cartoons on paper and in flash. I can edit digital video no problem. Just a few weeks ago I got my hands on AUTO DESK Maya and the Epics Unreal engine (still learning).Finally I can write. I have a novel in the midst of being published.

I'm not claiming I know everything, I clearly don't. What I do know is that I want to make a team of people that would like to make solid games. Programmers would be essential. Coders would be great. Animators I have. Music engineer I have. Writers/ Editors I have. The team is forming, the hardest part is getting the programers to join.

It seems like programmers want to join but had lots of bad experiences with other groups or they are just plain suspicious about it. I know it's allot of work for programmers. Especially for a side or main project. Work/school gets in the way. But know this. I want to make a team that would like to work together and make a great game.

You don't know me, don't claim I'd be useless. I am trying to start small, Depending on the programers that sign up (skill level)we will make a small easy game first or start with something more ambitious, For money. Which would be distributed evenly. Also depends on game engine.

No one has said you have no experience, you graduated from college but you have no experience making games, I don't have lots of experience my self but you at least need to give us some examples of your work or something, then people will be interested. If this is just a test project experienced people wont want to work on it. Great enthusiasm but we need to see some examples first or something.. 

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i wish there were a meme / image macro for posts like this to succinctly explain why posts like this are bad

cause it'd save a lot of time

anyway, basically, people who know how to code and do art are usually busy with their own ideas. their ideas are probably better than your ideas, because they cared about their ideas enough to learn programming and art

so asking someone with ideas and skills to work on an idea by someone with no skills isn't something that ever has worked in the history of indie game development (and i've been around for 15+ years of that history and have not ever seen it happen yet; without exception games like this don't attract serious volunteers and never get finished)

develop some skills. if you can't program, learn art; if you can't do art, learn music. you need something of value that you can trade for other things of value. 'having ideas' is of zero value; it's actually of negative value because it repels rather than attracts people because they want to make their own ideas into realities, not your ideas

[Houndninja]

I could not have put it in better words myself.

[Udderdude]

My ideas are so great, they create themselves .. >_>

[IndieEmma]

i wish there were a meme / image macro for posts like this to succinctly explain why posts like this are bad

Optimistic Indie Developer

[Houndninja]

I made this to show you everyone else's idea of you,
you gotta learn something so you are of more value and
people will want to work for you 

[Graham-]

Nana-na-naaa.... Why can dreams no be good? Man?

@VideoGameProject

The reality is like this:
  1. I have the skills to make a game, start to finish, all by myself. yo!
  2. My ideas rule. I stopped "regular" work, accepted the pain that goes with it, so that I could see them realized.
  3. That means my ideas are very important to me.

Someone with skills, and time to work on a project, is going to fall into this category. We have the skills because we have the experience. We have the time because we want to work on games we believe in. Now the question is, what do you bring that we don't have, that we must exchange our time for?

We want to know:
  a. Your project will complete.
  b. What your project is.
  c. What you will do in said project.

Without those things you've got nothing.

Proving c takes a portfolio of stuff that obviously translates to games.
Proving b takes a strong design that you have already created and communicated effectively.
Proving a takes a shown history for completing projects, as-in games, or completing milestones towards your current one.

See, we can always choose a project that satisfies the above 3, or has a high likelihood of doing so. We know what is is because it's whatever we want. It will complete if we want it to. We don't need to rely on anyone. That's because it is our own.

Moving us off of what we have, or potentially have, needs a lot of proving of things. It takes a lot of work for someone just to convince me just to try playing their game. You've got a small fraction of what would be needed to get me to download an alpha. Getting me to give you my time is way out.

Your best bet is just to get started, on your own, develop a following, or at least a track-record, then appeal along the way. Or you can build a relationship IRL. That and money are the strongest tools you have.


p.s. TIG is the harsh truth. Don't take it personally. We're all nice people.

edit: It's nice to see people replying on your facebook page.

[Houndninja]

Yeah, the whole community is friendly if a little blunt at times, it's never anything personal 
EDIT: Reading back through this post, you say you have a design degree!?
k, well.
STEP 1) Make a portfolio of things you've made, whether for fun or work.
STEP 2) Show off your portfolio! Prove you have experience!
STEP 3) If you like art, learn as many useful mediums of art that will be helpful
        for the kind of games you make! e.g. I learnt Pixel art and alot of
        traditional art mediums.
STEP 4) once these things are completed you can attract some programmers that will
        be interested in your project!

If you haven't done this, go do those things and come back to us after two months with a ripe portfolio and we shall greet and hug you with the love that is the TIG forums!
(lol sound like a jahovas witness )
 

[Garlicguy]

Solo, is the only way to go, Bro.
That way, you can take all the credit, he he he...

[louisdeb]

Programmers would be essential. Coders would be great.

You don't know me, don't claim I'd be useless. I am trying to start small, Depending on the programers that sign up (skill level)we will make a small easy game first or start with something more ambitious, For money. Which would be distributed evenly./VideoGamesProject

First of all what is the difference between a programmer and a coder...

And secondly, starting small is making a game by yourself, using the limits of your skills. That may be following tutorials on how to make something move left and right... and using plain squares as players (using different colours for enemies or something). The music may even be off a royalty-free website... Starting small is by no means getting together a group of devs and creating a game which has a 'fleshed out story line'.

Also what's your novel called? And what's your name?