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[Brother Android]

What a nut. I think conscious "indieness" - revelling in one's own inaccessibility and "sticking-it-to-the-man" - is nearly as bad as being hopelessly commercial. Possibly worse because I find myself associated with it.

Ultimately, the term "indie" merely relates to the financial situation of an artist. The goodness of a game (or a piece of music, or any type of art) is inherent and has nothing to do with finance. Everything else is just bullocks. If you can make money doing what you love, I say good for you. If we don't pay our artists, they have to get boring, suicide-inducing day jobs, and do we really want that?

[fish]

we need a better word.

[Renton]

We should go French and call ourselves indé gamers. We will sound indier and more sophisticated

[moi]

gamepunk.

[fish]

i like alt games.

[Renton]

Though now that I think of it, changing names could be interpreted by the aforementioned "insulters" as "cowardice" or "acceptance of non-indieness" or even "epic fail".

We have to stand our ground. We are not going to be intimidated by some blogger with a song! Who are they to say we're not indie? We're better than that! We are sophisticates! We wear monocles! THESE GENTLEMEN (and a few ladies, of course) WILL NOT GO DOWN WITHOUT A FIGHT.

(USSR themed patriotic TIGSource poster coming soon.)

[Corpus]

You're all taking this too seriously.

Even if we are talking it seriously, most good things that aren't retarded are considered pretentious by a large number of people. Screw it. Indie is awesome.

[Renton]

I should've explained that when I do propaganda, DO NOT TAKE IT SERIOUSLY. I don't really mean it. It was written tongue-in-cheek, which after a while starts hurting your cheek and exhausts your tongue muscles.

But seriously. Why can't we all just get along?

[Corpus]

I was replying more to Jabberwock. I could tell that yours wasn't serious :D

[fish]

i take nothing seriously.

[december]

i like alt games.

But roguelikes are in the rec games hierarchy!  Do we really want to exclude them?

[The Ivy]

erin, you soulless husk of a game developer!
you've stooped as low as jonathan blow.
have you no shame?
you're like EA, now.

Hahaha! Wow. This is awesome. And some of it almost rhymes, too. 

And if it's any consolation, I'm so indie I just quit my job.

[Renton]

It would've been indier if they fired you. :D

I just released a book named "How2GetIndierIn100Days". Ask your local bookstore.

[Brother Android]

You're all taking this too seriously.

Even if we are talking it seriously, most good things that aren't retarded are considered pretentious by a large number of people. Screw it. Indie is awesome.

Indie is no awesomer than non-indie, inherently, is all I am saying... I've played good games and terrible ones on both sides of the fence. Why do you say I am taking it too seriously? It's a pretty big deal to me... conceptually, anyway. I don't care what this one guy thinks of me; I only care that he is representative of an attitude held by a lot of people.

Oh, and are you suggesting that there are good things that ARE retarded? Seriously, though... I agree with your second point. Most people don't know quality when it slaps them in the face with a fish.

[policedanceclub]

Most people don't know quality when it slaps them in the face with a phil fish.

God Im hilarious.

[Corpus]

I am indeed suggesting that. And, well, yeah, most people don't know my idea of quality when it slaps them in the face, but I, equally, might not know their idea of quality when finding it "all up in my grill." I don't really think you can say that their taste is wrong and yours is right.

Dismissing things as pretentious gets on my nerves, though. Usually, it's totally unjustified and it's clear that they're not entirely certain of the word's meaning.

Indie is inherently more awesome than things that are inherently less awesome than it.

[fish]

last night me and erin took the most pretentious picture of ourselves that we could manage to.

i even put on my scarf.

[The Ivy]

It's true. We're even staring off into the future.

[muku]

Now I really want to see that.

[Brother Android]

I am indeed suggesting that. And, well, yeah, most people don't know my idea of quality when it slaps them in the face, but I, equally, might not know their idea of quality when finding it "all up in my grill." I don't really think you can say that their taste is wrong and yours is right.

To an extent, I agree with that, but I don't believe that art is merely a matter of taste. I believe that art, to some extent anyway, has, or lacks, quality independent of what people think about it. Of course, some things might not appeal to an individual because that individual simply doesn't relate to them - they haven't experienced the right stuff, I guess. THAT is taste. Being able to creatively engage and move someone who DOES relate to what you are talking about - THAT is quality. I don't claim to have all the rules down, being only one person with a pretty brief existence behind me, and I am willing to listen to other people's ideas on the subject, but this is what I think.

Dismissing things as pretentious gets on my nerves, though. Usually, it's totally unjustified and it's clear that they're not entirely certain of the word's meaning.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying all indie games are pretentious. If that were the case, why the hell would I even be here? SOME of them are pretentious. Some professional games are pretentious as well. Pretention is what arises when one says, "I'm going to make great art today, and it's going to be inaccessible, and I'm going to laugh at the people who don't get it." I think this is more widespread among indies than pros, though, because pretention doesn't usually sell.