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[Ajene]

Ok just wanted to make a post here. I'm 16 years old and i love cultures, and i know 4 languages (sorta, i speak 2 pretty well, the others are fragments that i have been learning) I love to play games where i can meet people from around the world, learn about their cultures and learn new languages (thats how i learned most of my languages) but i also like games where it isnt focused around huge heavy graphics and the ever-lasting quest to lvl your guy all day long. Thats when i got an idea for a MMO while thinking of ways to meet new people and learn more languages.

The MMO idea is this, a simple 2D isometric game, you create a character, and you can have him in many different style, anyone you choose really. it can match your personality, or just be something you feel like being. It'll basically be a game where you can do several things, Make money, Fight, hang out, and just buy a home to customize and live in. Aswell as party and do some other professions like fish,mine and so on. but this was just an Idea i had, What i wanna know is if there was a game like this would anyone be interested in playing it? and if i Did decide to make it (it would most likely be coded in Visual Basic or some other simple language as i am more of an artist) would anyone be interested in helping?

[Renton]

Hey.
While I sorta like the idea of a multicultural MMO, what you've written so far sounds like your average mmo. I think if you want people to help you, you'll need to tell more about the idea.
Also, you might find it hard to find anyone to help you, as there are too many mmos, and they are usually expensive to make, serve and are usually futile. If this is your first project, I'd suggest working on smaller projects first, to familiarize yourself with the process of making games.

[kyn]

You pretty much described every MMO right now, maybe except for House building and decorating, but then again, how would this be different from Second Life, Habbo or Home? And when a game pretty much depends on the community and not on the game itself, the task becomes much harder and beyond your control.

And MMO's are an overcrowded market, it's almost impossible newcomers to succeed right now

[godsavant]

(*Grudgingly decided not to include Picard facepalm*)

I'm trying to be tolerant, but this is not the first 16-year-old developer with aspirations to make an MMO to grace these boards.

The MMO idea is this, a simple 2D isometric game, you create a character, and you can have him in many different style, anyone you choose really. it can match your personality, or just be something you feel like being.

What you are describing is a low-res version of PS3's Home. Or real life.

It'll basically be a game where you can do several things, Make money, Fight, hang out, and just buy a home to customize and live in. Aswell as party and do some other professions like fish,mine and so on.

What you are describing is Gaia Online, only without development funds or advertising power.

But instead of going on a rant, I will let the embittered ghost of Don Andy do the work for me :

I know it can work, but it won't. Sure, EVERYBODY can fiddle together a MMO in a few minutes these days, there are enough tools for it out there (the most commonly abused probably being BYOND). But in the end you are putting way too much effort (and in some cases a lot of money) into a project that's absolutely not worth it in the end.

On paper or in your head its the best thing since sliced bread, but in the end you're left with a rather shitty game that's a 1:1 copy of every other MMO ever and has nothing to offer that other free MMOs don't offer, too. Nobody will play it, the thing will be hard/too costly to maintain (if it isn't hosted from a home computer) and in the end the whole thing will just go down and you're sitting there thinking why you haven't spend the last three years making real games.

And in the best case you'll also have some sort of small community that'll help you keep up the delusion that your game will be some sort of sleeper hit.

So in essence, yes, you can make a MMO with no problem, even entirely on your own within a reasonable timespan, but it'll be a waste of time. You can do so much more better things with that time, instead of creating another free MMO that maybe a hundred unique people will ever play. There are flash games done in a few hours that have more players.

In my opinion, based on what I've been through, if you're REALLY intent on creating a detailed online world that people can enjoy, then go get together a few dedicated people and try yourself on a MUD or MUSH. If the general idea of the game wouldn't have been detailed enough for creating a good MUD, then it wouldn't have made it as a graphical MMO either. There are enough grindfest games without substance out there.

OK, here's the basic rundown of how it'll go. Based on the experience of having gone through the same process twice (with an estimated wasted time of about 3-4 years)

You will start with a really good idea and a bunch of people (in this case your current staff) who like the idea and wanna support you. You attribute yourself as the Project Manager because you can't really do things as good as your staff, but that's OK. You'll just handle the web stuff like a homepage and forum.
So you set up that forum and things are going along pretty cool. Your staff seems motivated, your forum gets a few members (maybe even about 50 active members) and everything runs smoothly. Soon however, your staff members realize that working on a MMO isn't really all that cool and fun as they thought it'd be, but is actually REAL WORK, so they start not replying to your requests anymore or take really long to do the smallest things, until they disappear completely. Since you depend on these people, one of them dropping out essentially stalls that project (till you can find a replacement, starting the circle anew ad infitum). The community you have by then, which has been eagerly following development and making absurd feature requests along the way (thus forming a completely wrong image of the game), will start to notice the lack in updates and get uneasy, leading in the staff alienating themselves from the community. At the height of it all, you're left with a broken game, a pissed off community, and maybe one or two staff members that sticked around till the end but aren't really doing anything.

The whole process can take anything from a few months to a few years, depending on how often you repeat the staff replacement cycle. About halfway along that time you will get bored of the project yourself, but don't really want to abandon it, so you will spend most of the time trying to motivate your staff for a project you aren't really motivated for anymore yourself.

Also, I'm really not trying to flame or diss you or anything, I'm merely trying to prevent you from making a really grave mistake. At the end of it you will REALLY miss the time you wasted on it. I'm 21 now and can be a pretty good programmer (if I want to), but still haven't done anything notable, simply because I've been wasting my time trying to do a MMORPG. And in retrospect, I really wish I would've spend those years in these forums, working on my programming.

So there.

Project leader of a hobby/amateur project should be a fairly good programmer, to advance the project all by himself, and at least as much of a painter to create intermediate art.

If you cannot understand and fix the code of your best programmer, you are totally screwed if he leaves.

And that EXACTLY is the major problem. I'm not saying it is the case here, but usually with these projects the "Project Leader/Manager" is the guy who had the idea but absolutely none skills to realize it. So he gathers a few flukes around him who like the idea and lets them do the work. And if they suddenly stop doing work you're kind of screwed.

Andy had bad luck there, but I also have seen projects fail in similar ways.

And it scarred me oh so deep

But 90% of projects like this are destined to fail (and do) and while this may be a rather "meh" fact for other people, it is a giant waste of time for everyone involved. I've seen a great many of talents who wasted their skills on projects like this and could've done so much better and beautiful things.

I mean, there is this really talented pixel artist who put his whole heart into the project. He gets better and better with pixeling over the years, but then suddenly the project breaks and all of his work has been pretty much for zilch. This'll pretty much cause him to never work for a game project again (or at least not anytime soon) and another great talent is lost. Same goes for programmers, composers, etc.
A project you work years on but never see it going anywhere can pretty much suck the life out of a programmer. I've seen it happen.

I hope I have saved you the same hardship and broken dreams Andy went through.

[Ajene]

No its not my first game, actually i'm not working on it, just showing off the idea. I'm working on my Isometric rpg atm and dont have time to devote to the mmo till that is finished, then i am going to work on my Animations though. But its a future project.

And it would sorta be like second life only this one is for people who have slow computers. many MMO's are mostly focused around fighting, and lvling up and what not. This one is built for the community to have fun, the game grows around them.

to familiarize yourself with the process of making games.

check my tuts i'm pretty familiar with game making process.

as there are too many mmos, and they are usually expensive to make,

Actually for the type of MMO i am doing it can be very cheap to make. its 2D isometric for one, so low graphics it can easily be run on someones computer at first, and then transferred to a better host too.

Second life needs some ram to play and a good internet connection, so anyone who doesnt have these are left out (my graphic card sucks so i cant get on it) Habbo has annoying graphics and mostly you just wonder around, This one give people the ability to fight and lvl up if they want to. Or just craft for cash or for fun.

@godsavant the first game i tried to make was a couple of simple platform games, And now i am working on an RPG atm, next will be a 2D fighter game. Was just posting an idea for a mmo i had, not something i plan on doing like in the next few hours or months, Possibly i'll work on it in a year or 2.

[Noel Berry]

I see a lot of people attempting to make MMORPGs and most of the flat out fail. You need to keep the server up 24/7, you need some relatively good coding skills (especially if you want the game to run at any reasonable speed).

What do you plan to make the game in? What will make the game really different from every single other MMORPG? How will it be better then all the other ones, or good enough for people to even want to play it? Are you a good enough coder + spriter/graphical artist to even lift the thing off the ground, let alone fly it?

I'm not trying to be negative... but, a lot of these projects tend to fail before they even really get started...


Personally, I don't like MMORPGs much anyway

[Ajene]

Those are questions people should be asking drazzke, usually when someone hears MMO or 16 (or both) they automatically dismiss that the person is able to create one. Mines will be a simple 2D isometric.

What do you plan to make the game in?
I will either code it using Blitz Basic program, Or using VB.net

What will make the game really different from every single other MMORPG?
It wont be much different, other then it being more for the community, and not limiting their game play. They can do almost absolutely everything to their character, Hair styles, tattoos, piercings, housing (from living to old dumpy houses to moving to rich neighborhoods and having big mansions)

How will it be better then all the other ones, or good enough for people to even want to play it?
It'll be good enough for people to want to play, Good enough graphics that someone can stomach for a good couple hours, and game play for when they wanna waste time. The game will just be a spot for people to come, waste time, and meet new people.

Are you a good enough coder + spriter/graphical artist to even lift the thing off the ground, let alone fly it?
I'm re-learning coding languages, but i am more of an artist, and will handle alot of the art stuff, But i will code the whole net play, and a couple maps. just so people can look at it, and i will have something to show, instead of just an idea, Cause thats all it is now. Something i wrote on paper and have stored away until i get to it. (after i finish my other projects though)

As i said simple language so it wont be much of a hassle, I dont plan on the game play being like "WOW OMG THIS IS AWESOME" just "this is kinda fun, a good way to waste time, and a fun place to hang out" I've worked with a couple of 2D mmo's Usually doing art for one of those point and click map making mmo's

EDIT: was still young when I though like this. Still am young, but I know a lot more.

[Noel Berry]

Those are questions people should be asking drazzke, usually when someone hears MMO or 16 (or both) they automatically dismiss that the person is able to create one. Mines will be a simple 2D isometric.

Hehe, well, I'm 16 too

Well, hope it goes well for you... But, you may want to find a programmer to help out if it isn't your strong point....

[godsavant]

Mm...well, it sounds like you know what you're doing.

Good luck to you.

[Fuzz]

How do you plan to make it so that players "meet new people and learn more languages"? What you've described seems to be a generic MMO/Second Life clone, and friendships between people in MMOs are almost always very shallow; I doubt any player would want to go through with the hassle of teaching someone their language. It's not very clear what you're trying to accomplish with this.

[Ajene]

How do you plan to make it so that players "meet new people and learn more languages"? What you've described seems to be a generic MMO/Second Life clone, and friendships between people in MMOs are almost always very shallow; I doubt any player would want to go through with the hassle of teaching someone their language. It's not very clear what you're trying to accomplish with this.

Thats something for the players to decide to do. I know when i use to play games i would join Foreign guilds, last game i played was Voyage century online and i join a Croatian guild and began to pick up their language.

And yea it may be a second life clone. but like i said this is aimed towards people who dont have the computer to go on games like that. or dont feel like playing slow loading game atm. Mostly something you can log on to play for 30mins or more and then go. I'm not really going for perfection here.

Anyway i'll think of some ways to encourage people to meet new people. But mostly we'll just say we encourage it, and we hope they do it.

And yea i gonna have a friend who knows C++ and is a coder help me. But before i ask him, i wanna make his job easy so like i said i'm gonna do the first few parts of it, just to get something up and running, cause even though he is my friend, hes the same as anyone, he doesnt want to waste his time, unless its a sure thing, or unless we can get it up. and he sure as hell doesnt want to do nearly 90% of the coding himself.

[Fuzz]

How do you plan to make it so that players "meet new people and learn more languages"? What you've described seems to be a generic MMO/Second Life clone, and friendships between people in MMOs are almost always very shallow; I doubt any player would want to go through with the hassle of teaching someone their language. It's not very clear what you're trying to accomplish with this.

Thats something for the players to decide to do. I know when i use to play games i would join Foreign guilds, last game i played was Voyage century online and i join a Croatian guild and began to pick up their language.

And yea it may be a second life clone. but like i said this is aimed towards people who dont have the computer to go on games like that. or dont feel like playing slow loading game atm. Mostly something you can log on to play for 30mins or more and then go. I'm not really going for perfection here.

Anyway i'll think of some ways to encourage people to meet new people. But mostly we'll just say we encourage it, and we hope they do it.

And yea i gonna have a friend who knows C++ and is a coder help me. But before i ask him, i wanna make his job easy so like i said i'm gonna do the first few parts of it, just to get something up and running, cause even though he is my friend, hes the same as anyone, he doesnt want to waste his time, unless its a sure thing, or unless we can get it up. and he sure as hell doesnt want to do nearly 90% of the coding himself.

As I said before, I doubt most players will be as creative and interested in other languages as you. You can't really just say "go meet new people and learn their language and communicate beyond a shallow, MMO-level communication" and expect it to just happen like that. You could have some sort of way to support this with gameplay, such as having to answer a simple question in a different language than your native one to enter a new area, and I'm sure there are lots of other ways you could do this.

[december]

How do you plan to make it so that players "meet new people and learn more languages"? What you've described seems to be a generic MMO/Second Life clone, and friendships between people in MMOs are almost always very shallow; I doubt any player would want to go through with the hassle of teaching someone their language. It's not very clear what you're trying to accomplish with this.

Thats something for the players to decide to do. I know when i use to play games i would join Foreign guilds, last game i played was Voyage century online and i join a Croatian guild and began to pick up their language.

If I may cite Ron Edwards for a moment, let me ask how you are going to reward learning language skills.  Since games are interactive, they will be about what players do, and games players do things that get them some sort of positive reinforcement, similar to a rat pressing a feeder bar for a snack treat.  What feeder bars and snack treats are you designing?

[Ajene]

Well i was thinking of having very rewarable quest that are in different languages. Aswell as random trivia. Which is basically you leave a bot in the game, and every few time limits he will announce a question. Sometimes the question can be in another language, sometimes it will be something from a different culture. First person the PM him will automatically get an item or cash or w/e into their bank.

[null & void]

What's preventing people from just answering the questions they know? Having seen trivia bots online, I know people will tend to concentrate on one subject they're good with to the exclusion of all others, and usually do better than those who are more general in their knowledge.

Essentially, you REALLY have to push people to learn a language. They aren't just going to do something that time-consuming and difficult to answer a damned trivia question. That's like making someone play Tocatta and Fugue on the cello when they've never touched a bowed instrument before and can't read sheet music... for a lollipop. And I mean a really crappy 30 cent grape lollipop. They just aren't going to do it.

If I were you I'd consider turning my back on this game. People looking to kill time tend to be arrogant, pigheaded, boorish, etc. You seem to be looking for intellectuals. Not going to happen, they're all much too busy thinking and doing things by themselves. And the best part? They don't need a carrot and a stick to get them to do it.

The people who play MMOs usually need a carrot, a stick, a loaded shotgun and much, much more (as contingency plans).

[Ajene]

lol that is kinda true

The people who play MMOs usually need a carrot, a stick, a loaded shotgun and much, much more (as contingency plans).

this was funny lol

Anyway, this project would be fun for me to make. And i've played a game that was kinda fun and was sorta like the game i was talkin about making (endless online)

My project is just a little hobby project, a learning experience, and something to test my skills. I also got ways to deal with the assholes in the game. Cause i know many games are poorly monitored.

[smn]

The game will just be a spot for people to come, waste time, and meet new people.

Whoa, now we're talking Habbo Hotel!

[Gainsworthy]

The game will just be a spot for people to come, waste time, and meet new people.

Whoa, now we're talking Habbo Hotel!

Har har har.*


I'm not a MMORPG guy, myself, and to top that off I also think a MMORPGuh needs to be killer if it wants ANY sort of chance at all. I was considering chiming in with a "Save yourself! Make a regular RPG!" post. Because lonely MMO's seem so very sad to me.


However, on further thought, we're indies. We have one agenda - our own. We make what we want to play, and our audience finds us. If it's weird, and niche, and off the wall, so be it. If it's normal, and similar, but fun and comfortable, so be it. You seem to see the risks, the problems and the potential shortfalls. After all this, you don't care, because, hell, you want a nice, simple MMO with a small, loyal audience. I say go for it.

 



*I really dig the Habbo artist's other stuff, though. And, to be fair, I played it for one day years and years ago simply for the crisp Iso styles. And still remember it.

[Maisnon!]

It's said before, and I will be blunt and say it again: it won't work.

It's too much like Habbo, and in fact, too much like real life.

I don't want to be pessimistic about this, but I don't think a lot of people are going to play it. It's hard to reach a lot of people, especially falling into the target group for this, simply because the other options they have are more fun / better developed, tested and perfected throughout the years, and already providing them with enough entertainment.

[Ajene]

Many games like this have been very successful, once again i tell you of one (endless online) i even use to talk with Gier (the maker of that game) and he told me tht many people told him aswell that it would work.

I'm not reaching for some hardcore mmo players, Its just a simple Isometric MMO where people can enjoy themselves.

I've played habbo and it'll be nothing like that. I'm surprised people compare it to that. I played habbo for about 2 days and it was boring. Wasnt much to do, Couldnt fight, couldnt do some type of craft. I was lost most of the time trying to find out what the hell there is to do in there.

Anyway, i still plan to do this soon just wanted to see what everyone thought of it. I know all the problems i will go through, the risks, and how hard it could be. and like Aaron said i really dont care, if i fail i will chop it up as a learning experience and possibly try it again in the future (i'm not one to give up)